Unveiling 'Skin of the Sea': Exploring Identity, Mythology, and the Power of Transformation| BLK Girl Reads Ep.1

In this captivating episode of Black Girl Reads, join our dynamic book club as we dive deep into the enchanting world of 'Skin of the Sea' by Natasha Bowen. From the very first page, this novel takes us on an extraordinary journey filled with themes of identity, mythology, and the profound power of transformation. Join us as we unravel the layers of this remarkable story, discussing its compelling characters, evocative imagery, and thought-provoking messages. Get ready for an insightful conversation that will leave you eager to embark on your own literary voyage through 'Skin of the Sea'!

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Transcript

Jann: 0:01

a way to survive. A way to serve. A way to save. SImi prayed to the Gods once. Now she serves them as Mami wata. A mermaid collecting the souls of those who die at the sea, blessing their journeys back home. But when a living boy is thrown overboard, Simi goes against an ancient decree and does the unthinkable. She saves his life and punishment awaits those who dare to defy the Gods. All right, welcome guys to our podcast. This is the first episode and we are reviewing Skin of the Sea by Natasha Bowen. I'm Jannise and

Joi: 0:35

I'm Joi.

Jann: 0:38

we're gonna be hosting these episodes together every week. New episode every Sunday. So that was the synopsis of the book that we're reviewing. Joi, if you were to give a rating out of five stars, what would you give this book?

Joi: 0:53

I would give Skin of the Sea a five. Absolutely. Five outta five. Five stars. Five star fish cuz she lives in the water.

Jann: 1:05

I've never heard the term five star fish, but Okay. I'm nervous to tell you my, huh.

Joi: 1:12

What would you, you're gonna rate it low?

Jann: 1:17

I'm not rating it low, but I am gonna rate it.

Joi: 1:22

don't do it.

Jann: 1:24

I would rate it like a three, three and a half stars.

Joi: 1:27

What? Okay. Why?

Jann: 1:35

Yeah. Let's get into, like, explaining our ratings a little bit. But just so everyone who's just, for everyone who's listening, there will be spoilers from here on out. So if you haven't read the book yet and you wanna read it, make sure that you log off because we're not going to edit ourselves,

Joi: 1:52

That's right

Jann: 1:53

but let's hear it.

Joi: 1:54

and we're going through it like you gotta read

Jann: 1:56

We are, we are. It is a must read. Yeah, sure. It No it is. I didn't mean that sarcastically. It's a good, it's a good book. I just dunno if I would rated five stars. So why don't you tell me why you rated it five stars.

Joi: 2:12

Okay, so first of all, let me, let me get the visual for you. When I saw this book in the bookstore, I

Jann: 2:19

it up then. Let's see it.

Joi: 2:21

I, all right, so Skin of Sea tell me you would not pick this book up if you walking around Barnes and Noble Borders. Whatever bookstore. It's beautiful. The gold, the black, the dark skin, the curly hair. She's beautiful. So obviously I picked her up. Um, and then the blue,

Jann: 2:45

actually see it.

Joi: 2:46

you can't see it. There you go.

Jann: 2:49

We can see the reflection of the sun, but yeah, it's really pretty.

Joi: 2:54

Yeah, it's beautiful. She's beautiful. And so I picked it up. The blue is beautiful. She's a mermaid. I'm obsessed with black mermaids, you know, so there you go. That's why I absolutely love it. And when

Jann: 3:08

you being obsessed with black mermaids, I feel like we don't really see that a ton, so I feel like even before you opened up the book, you were gonna be obsessed, you know?

Joi: 3:18

I mean, to be fair, it was gonna be a three just from the cover, but don't, let's not lie to ourselves, but. You know, when you buy new books, I have a bad habit of buying books and then not reading them. This is when I immediately started reading. It took a while to get through, cause I just have, you know, life. Um, but it's an amazing book. It's so, refreshing cuz it's in the ocean. You get No, I'm just kidding. No, it's like, it's, it's refreshing because I've been on this book journey looking for a good book, black book written with black characters, but there's like no trauma, no one's getting whipped, no one's in chains. And I mean, to be fair with this, it does have, it's um, in the 1400s I think it's based. So it has a little bit of just like the whites bringing black people over, African people over for the slave trade. But you don't get a lot of the Brutality that we're used to seeing people like us facing in books and you know, in stories and movies. So I really liked that and I liked how I could just escape into the book without being traumatized. And that was a big thing for me. It made me want to go and research who these gods and goddesses were that I had no idea growing up in America, where, you know, it makes me want to do research. It makes me want to look more into who this author is, who Simi is. Like I want to learn. And I feel like when a book makes you want to further your research into a certain culture genre, I think that that's a five star book. Even if you don't necessarily like what happened throughout the book. I think the after feelings and feeling good after reading it and wanting to do more after it makes it a five star. Now, why did you not like it, Jan?

Jann: 5:13

I didn't say I didn't like it. I didn't say I didn't like it. I like it for all of those reasons that you said, to be honest. And the fact that like black mermaids, I've don't see that very often. So I was super excited to see that and to like, you know, I, I am a fantasy fiction girl anyway, so I love that. What I would say is just that there was, I don't know what it was exactly, maybe it was at the book was a little short. Um, it was very action packed and I feel like the very like driven plot line kind of hindered the character development. For me, like I feel like you gotta good sense of who the characters were, but you didn't really dive deep to get to know a lot of the characters. And this is what my thought is overall, to be honest with you. It's such a gorgeous book. Like when they were describing her with like the blue and the like pink, like the blush colored Tail. Yeah. I, I was like, this is gonna be an amazing movie. They have to make this a movie. Absolutely. Like I get like memoirs of a geisha vibes where this is gonna be stunning, you know?

Joi: 6:17

Yeah, it has to be. Absolutely.

Jann: 6:20

yeah. But, I guess It seemed, it put me in the mood of a movie actually, where you kind of get a sense of the characters, but you don't really go deep into their psyche too much. And, I've read a couple of fantasy books about like the African Orishas, so it wasn't like quite as new and fresh to me as it was for you. Um, so for that reason, I feel like it wasn't as much of an impact for me reading it for the first time, you know?

Joi: 6:46

I feel like this is one of the books that, oh, sorry.

Jann: 6:50

that's okay. That's okay. What gonna say.

Joi: 6:52

No, when I was actually listening, cause I, I ended up having to listen to it on Audible, cuz I wanted to get through it and get chores and things done. But when I was listening to the author talk about why she wrote it, it almost, It almost brought a thug tear. Cause she was saying that like she, she always loved Little Mermaid, but she, she wanted like some representation cuz it matters and it's just like, yeah, like that's definitely true. And if they were to make this into like a few feature film or either cartoon or some kind of animation for black girls can see themselves and black boys, you know, you might wanna start on your phone during the podcast, but yeah, I'm just saying it was just like, it was chopped full of just like beautiful, and then she also, she also noted that black history does not start with slavery and I love that. So we have a whole rich culture that we obviously don't know much about, that we want to learn about. But yeah, I think it's, I think it's an important book. I think it's a fun book and I think it's a perfect book for

Jann: 8:02

And to be clear, a three and a half star is not like a bad rating at all.

Joi: 8:06

Its average?

Jann: 8:07

Like, I feel like it was a, yeah, it's, I would say it's average just because I, like I said, I read a lot of like fantasies and a lot of those fantasies do like revolve around the Orishas and you know,

Joi: 8:19

Mm-hmm.

Jann: 8:20

not necessarily a competition, but in comparison to some of those others, where was a little bit longer because it was a quick read this book, which I enjoy, like, I like quick reads. But you know, it just, I was ex, I was expecting more and I feel like a lot of the theories that I had didn't really come to fruition, which we'll get into. Like, I don't know why that kind of made me disconnect a little. Um, but my first question, since we're kind of talking about the characters and character development is like, did you connect with the characters

Joi: 8:48

I think

Jann: 8:49

do you like, okay, so who was your like best and worst characters?

Joi: 8:54

Um, I think my best character would probably be, Yemoja. The mother of the mommy wata the mermaids. Because she, even though she has the passion for finding these souls and releasing them to Olo made dear, I think that's the, the, you know,

Jann: 9:16

Olodumare?

Joi: 9:16

Olodumare yeah. She knew her purpose, but she also understood where she was coming from. She was Like Simi, you can't be doing this, but since you did it, this is how we gonna fix it. You know? She was like, look at my face. Look what, look what happened to me when I fucked up. You know, honest mistakes, but we gotta get to, you know, we gotta fix it, basically. So she, she

Jann: 9:40

was hot, to be honest. Like she, she pretty much said You're the only one who did not listen. Did we not just talk about this last week? I said,

Joi: 9:51

Yeah, I can understand that too, like once you see her scars and everything, what she's been through. But I think it was very smart. Instead of having her be pissed off and like, like cuss her out or you know, all that stuff. Like obviously she was upset, but I think it was very important for her to also sit down and talk, to Simi and say like, listen, this is why I told you this is our mission. This is why we we're supposed to do what we're supposed to do and nothing else. You know, it's for your safety and my safety and all of your sister's safety, you know?

Jann: 10:19

So, I'm just gonna say this. I don't know if it's because I grew up in a black household or what, but, um, that whole scene where she was getting pissed off at Yemoja, like you should have told me, like, have you lost your mind you talking to your, that's your mama. Like she shoulda told you what? You better sit down and listen, like you're really trying to get the black slapped off you today, like what's happening,

Joi: 10:45

And that's why I think that's so important too, because that's how we grew up, right? We were always afraid to ask questions and to, you know, really kind of get in there like, well, why? You could never ask why. So I really

Jann: 10:56

that's not even the point though. I feel like there was some disrespect there cuz, hold on, hold on.

Joi: 11:01

Yeah. There was,

Jann: 11:02

the time to ask why was when she said, this is all you need to do. And she could have said, why? You don't say, okay, yeah, I'm gonna do that. And then go off and do something you're not supposed to do and then get mad and say, well you should have told me. Like,

Joi: 11:18

I mean, the way you say it, yes, but at the same

Jann: 11:21

That's a little different.

Joi: 11:23

at the same time though, I feel like when you ask why after a major, something major happens, that's also fair.

Jann: 11:31

That's fair. But you don't get pissed off because she didn't tell you and ask her why. Like mad.

Joi: 11:37

She gives me the youngest of the siblings,

Jann: 11:40

kept, she kept saying like, I had to tempt down my anger. What did Yemoja do for you to be mad at her? Like, anyway, I'm just defending your fave, that's all.

Joi: 11:56

And yeah, I

Jann: 11:57

your favorite character.

Joi: 11:59

absolutely. I absolutely loved her. She was amazing and I loved her story. Um, my least favorite would probably be, um, it's gonna be horrible. I did not like the yumbo Issa.

Jann: 12:15

I knew you were gonna say that,

Joi: 12:17

I, I did not. I did, I didn't, I didn't like him. Like, I didn't like how

Jann: 12:23

myself like how they did. Like he's a child. He is a child,

Joi: 12:27

Yeah, he's a child. But I mean, like, it wasn't like vitriol or anything, or annoyance. It was more just like, okay, you're supposed to take us to, and the whole time after they got to Kola's village, the, the. Was it the grandfather or the father told him to bring his butt on home? He never did that. I'm like, so when he gonna go like, why is he even in the gates? Like, send his ass packing and then for him to show up again later, I was like, see,

Jann: 12:54

were annoyed by

Joi: 12:55

what happens.

Jann: 12:56

wanted him to leave.

Joi: 12:57

It wasn't that, I'm just like, you did what you're supposed to do. Like the other two promises that he would be back it, it was concern and then it was like, it was one of those things where it's like, I love you so much child, but I need you to do what you gotta do and, and beat it. Like, you know, with this grown folks, we gotta do some stuff over here and there's a reason why you're not supposed to be coming on this huge mission with us. So

Jann: 13:21

This is what I mean though. Like I understand that Issa was a side character, but I just feel like I. The only times we like, kind of mentioned Issa, even though he was there the whole time, there were huge spans of time where he was just in the bag and we didn't hear from him. You know, like there just wasn't a lot of time to connect with him the way we should have. Like, I didn't get that child like vibe, from him, you know? Even though he was a child, like he was a kid. And I feel like that made the death scene of Issa, like, not like, oh, finally, like, anything like that. But it just wasn't it didn't hit me like it should have, you know?

Joi: 13:58

It was one of

Jann: 13:59

So I, I just wish I, we could connect a little bit more with the characters like that.

Joi: 14:03

No. Yeah. It was one of those things where I was like, when he died and it, you know how Simi was kind of hard on him the whole time too, especially after the river Monster scene.

Jann: 14:14

I hated how mean she was to him at that

Joi: 14:16

I didn't, I didn't because this is the third, second or third time, Simi had to save Kola's ass from dying, and this one could have been avoided. I don't think

Jann: 14:28

of that was his fault.

Joi: 14:29

Coming from Simi's point of view, it's like, listen, you're supposed to get us here like quickly. I understand, but at least give us a heads up. Don't let me and Kola just chill in the river when you know this monster's here. You say, Hey, this, what was it called? I forgot what it was called, but it was like, it's in the river. Not usually we're supposed to

Jann: 14:49

think that was, if they make this a movie, that Dragon is gonna be freaking gorgeous.

Joi: 14:54

yeah, everything will be gorgeous. Like what? What are you saying? But no, yeah, like give us a heads

Jann: 15:00

of the scenes.

Joi: 15:02

right? Like Kola don't go on the river. Obviously the bridge broke, he fell, but they were chilling in that river for a hot minute and Issa never said anything about it, so,

Jann: 15:14

he's a kid. It's not even like he's a teenager. He is a kid. I don't think he was thinking about it when they were just gonna go over the bridge,

Joi: 15:22

mm-hmm.

Jann: 15:22

you know? Um, and then when the bridge broke, I think he was just relieved that he didn't drown and he was already swimming to the shore, you know, I'm not saying he was right. He should've like, oh my God, get out of the river. He should have did that. But yeah, I just didn't like how upset she was, which I feel like she agreed with. Even in the book, she was like, yeah, I, I hate how I acted

Joi: 15:44

It was one of

Jann: 15:44

was like screaming at him like he was a grown man. Like

Joi: 15:49

yeah, that's true. She was hard on him. But again, it's one of those things where it's just like why. Once again, I could have at least had a

Jann: 15:56

so surprised that you as a gentle parenting queen, It is saying like, Nope, nope, it was okay. That's perfectly fine.

Joi: 16:06

I'm not saying that it was, the reaction was okay. I'm saying the reaction was human. And when you're in a situation like that, yeah. I don't blame Simi for the reaction. But I can, and I can see where she's coming from. I don't agree with it, but I can see where she's coming from. And like I said, with with him, he is a child. But once again, it's just like you did your job before they even, like if they saw those guards lined up at the gates, that's when they said, okay Issa, it's time to head back home. And that's all I'm saying, like Issa should not have been throughout the rest of the book.

Jann: 16:43

okay, you saying it like you were just trying to convince me. I would just say I didn't like how hard she was on him, but again, she agreed. It's not like hate on her character. That's just,

Joi: 16:53

And even then too,

Jann: 16:54

your,

Joi: 16:55

why would they bring him off the ship?

Jann: 16:58

hate Issa.

Joi: 16:59

I don't hate him, he's just my least favorite character, cuz he should not have been there for the rest of the story. He was there for two thirds of the story.

Jann: 17:07

All right, I got you. I got you.

Joi: 17:14

who is your favorite character?

Jann: 17:17

So you're gonna be surprised that I have not really thought about it since I asked you the question, but, um, okay. So Kola, I feel like was my favorite character,

Joi: 17:28

Really

Jann: 17:28

which I wasn't expecting. I was not expecting, but I feel like after he um, I liked that he kept his word with everything that he did. I liked that he had her back throughout the entire story. Like even when, Issun was trying to split them apart, I was like, she didn't tell you that you guys couldn't be together. And she was expecting him to be pissed. He was like, eh, who cares?

Joi: 17:49

Right? Like a Mami Wata duh.

Jann: 17:52

Right. He was just like, at the beginning I thought he was a villain, just putting it out there. I thought that he wanted to get bad back so bad because he was shady and probably dealing with the, I forget what they called the Portuguese

Joi: 18:09

Like the obos or something like that.

Jann: 18:11

or MBOs or what? Yeah, whatever. I thought he was like dealing with them and like trading people. Like I had just had all the suspicion in the world, but he just turned out, maybe it was because I was suspecting him to be a villain. The fact that he turned out to be so decent and nice and even killed. Even the argument between Issa and um, Simi Daley, like he was the one like, okay guys, it's, it's fine. I'm the one who got bit here. Everyone calmed down. You know, like how do you keep the peace after you just got bit by a water dragon?

Joi: 18:42

And drowned and whipped and kidnapped and thrown in the sea. Yeah.

Jann: 18:46

Like this dude. I'm like, it's gonna be nothing to him. Left by the end of this book.

Joi: 18:50

He's like a cat. He got seven lives. Wait, was it nine lives? He died so many times. I couldn't keep up.

Jann: 18:57

I had to think about it like seven. He has nine. It's nine. But yeah, I was, it was a, it was a surprise to me that he was my favorite.

Joi: 19:04

I never knew, I never thought that Kola was the bad guy because when Yemoja mentioned, The messenger God. I was like, okay, that's the bad guy. Like, I never, I never

Jann: 19:16

Well, there could be more than one villain in a book.

Joi: 19:20

Yeah, you're right. You, oh my gosh. You know, I just realized and literally just clicked. I was like, you remember when Yemoja gave her the dagger and said, don't trust people. She literally trusted everybody except for like with the Mami Wata stuff. She didn't really tell anybody till the end. But, um, there was no one untrustworthy that she met, except for the messenger God that was in disguise.

Jann: 19:47

Issun.

Joi: 19:49

Yeah. Issun. She like, you know, that whole thing. But I was just like, no one really went for her or anything like that. I thought it would be like more danger. I thought it would be more white people or Portuguese or whatever, and that would be the issue, but it wasn't. But yeah, that just clicked to me like she never had to.

Jann: 20:08

So here's a question. When they got on the ship, uh, like the one that they took over, the other black people from all around, what did you think then? Did you trust them immediately?

Joi: 20:18

Um,

Jann: 20:19

that's who she was talking about when they got on the boat. Like, don't trust it. They are trading your kind. Um,

Joi: 20:26

You don't trust nobody.

Jann: 20:28

at Kola I didn't trust anybody at all.

Joi: 20:31

You said it be your own kind every time.

Jann: 20:35

Not every time don't, don't, don't do that. Like all I'm saying is I'm not trusting anybody.

Joi: 20:42

I, I wanted to trust them very badly and then like when they like sat them down in the room and brought them like food, I was like, oh no, it's gonna be like some kind of sleep, drug or something in the soup. And it wasn't. And I was just like, oh my gosh. Like these are actually good people. So what does that say about us? I think we need therapy.

Jann: 21:02

I think it just means that we are used to having to watch our backs. And I That's a good thing. Um, and it's refreshing when you read a book where that doesn't exist. Uh, well, it does exist, but you know, you can trust some people.

Joi: 21:16

Yeah,

Jann: 21:17

I think that's awesome that she like told that story too. Cause I feel like in black history you don't really hear a lot about black people fighting back, even though that was a huge part of history. Like they really portrayed black people to be just complacent. Like, they didn't really do anything about it, but we kind of just decided to give them their freedom, you know,

Joi: 21:36

right.

Jann: 21:37

like, yeah. And that's not how it was. So, yeah, I'm, I'm glad that she portrayed that side.

Joi: 21:42

Mm-hmm.

Jann: 21:43

Yeah. Okay. So I wanna tell you, oh, I didn't really say who my least favorite character was,

Joi: 21:53

Who was it?

Jann: 21:54

and I don't know, I feel like they were all pretty complex. Like obviously, like Issun was like a di a jerk, he was kind of an ass hat. But, um,

Joi: 22:05

How you,

Jann: 22:05

I didn't, what.

Joi: 22:07

Devin, you censor your, you sensor, you censor yourself on dick, but then you said ass hat, right? Right after.

Jann: 22:15

That's not what I was gonna say. That's why.

Joi: 22:17

Okay.

Jann: 22:18

But um, yeah, I don't know. It wasn't like, normally when I'm reading the story I'm like, I cannot believe this person is like over and over and over again making me sick. But it was just like, he was bad from the start. He was bad at the end. And again, we didn't really get into his character development, so whatever. Like it was a very flat villain for me. I didn't really feel a lot of emotion towards him. And again, I feel like that goes into, we didn't really have time for character development that I'm wanting

Joi: 22:46

Or was it just that like everyone was so helpful and actually did what they were supposed to do, like even with Issun. I thought that he was a, was a really good character to have in the background, like with the storm came and they weren't sure, but they kind of knew. And then having him in disguise in the same boat, like I feel like they did, she did um, him very well. Like you never know, it could be like right behind you. This whole time they thought they were racing him to get there, but just to find out, he already got there, got the twins, went back, dropped them off, came back, was in disguise. You know what I mean? I thought that was very interesting.

Jann: 23:24

Huh. I don't know. I mean any, all of that, I still feel like the character was flat. I just didn't feel a lot of emotion towards him. Even though he did all these like, heinous things and got Issa killed. I just, I'm like, oh yeah, he's bad.

Joi: 23:39

I

Jann: 23:39

That's how it

Joi: 23:40

favorite was Ola. Ola Damari.

Jann: 23:43

Olodumare?

Joi: 23:44

Yeah,

Jann: 23:46

Why?

Joi: 23:46

nothing like everything. Everyone was like, oh yeah, he's so busy. He's doing this, he's doing that. I'm just like,

Jann: 23:53

Nah, your least favorite character was Issa. Don't try to backtrack now.

Joi: 23:56

listen,

Jann: 23:58

You hated the child. We got it

Joi: 24:02

wow. Anyway, uh, what's the next segment please?

Jann: 24:04

here. Whatever. Here's what I will say. Like I, I, when they first showed, um, Yemoja, or not showed, but like described her and she was coming out of the water and she was way bigger than her. I was like, oh my goodness, that is so beautiful. And I couldn't imagine being that close to an Orisha. And I kind of feel like I wasn't expecting so many Orisha to be actual characters in the book because coming in contact with an Orisha should be rare, right? So once it got to the part where Shango and Oye was on the boat, I was like, okay, that's awesome. We're getting to meet more characters and more Orishas. But then when they were just stayed there and was like chatting with people, I'm like, is this normal God behavior? Like it kind of dimmed the significance of them being orisha. For me,

Joi: 24:58

I don't think so

Jann: 24:59

they stayed so long and was like chatting,

Joi: 25:01

I think that, with it being she, her being. Not human either. And then on a very much not human journey, it kind of makes sense that she came into contact a lot more with Orishas. And then on top of it, you know, people, even in Greek mythology, they say that back in the day people would come into contact with Greek gods and goddesses a lot more often than

Jann: 25:24

but they were disguised as mortals. So there's two things too with that. Like in that they were disguised as mortals. These were not, they were just like full blown Orisha throwing thunder. Shango was throwing thunder, which just side note, Shango is actually, I figured out today the.

Joi: 25:40

Aquarius

Jann: 25:41

Orisha that corresponds with my horoscope,

Joi: 25:44

I'm like, makes sense.

Jann: 25:46

Aquarius. Yeah. Yeah. That was shout out to Shango,

Joi: 25:51

And

Jann: 25:52

No, and so to that.

Joi: 25:53

was Libra.

Jann: 25:54

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, so there's that, like, there were disguised as mortals, and I feel like that's, it's kind of like a odyssey vibe, like where you run into more supernatural characters because you're going through that journey. But their journey had nothing to do with Oye and Shango it was just them destroying the boat, like they ran into them by coincidence, you know? So it kinda gives the feeling that they're just out there. So, I don't know. That was a bit weird for me.

Joi: 26:25

they got stuff to do too. They wanna do stuff.

Jann: 26:29

They need to go do it with a Olodumare in the Gods realm.

Joi: 26:33

Listen, at least they were helping. He, I don't know

Jann: 26:36

thought that was interesting too though. Like why is shoe wasn't like super like bad for me. The fact that he like let them destroy the boats and didn't report it to Olodumare. Like, all right, he is not all bad then when he was just being petty with, Yemoja.

Joi: 26:51

Yeah, true. It's one of those things you're just like, so you're just, you're just Okay. Got it.

Jann: 26:57

Yeah,

Joi: 26:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Jann: 27:01

it was interesting for sure. Didn't like diminish it at all for you though, just being there.

Joi: 27:08

Mm-hmm.

Jann: 27:10

Yeah. So anyway, I, I really like that even though I feel like having so many Orisha is just like chatting with them. Um, it was a little weird. I love all the creatures that they had in there. Like the, fairies, like Issa and the fairy people.

Joi: 27:25

Mm-hmm.

Jann: 27:27

Say it again?

Joi: 27:28

Jumbos. Jumbos.

Jann: 27:30

I don't remember a lot like the Orisha names. I remember, pretty well because I've been trying to learn about Orisha here and there, but the mystical creatures like I just have and Mami Wata I knew about, but the other ones I'm like, I didn't even know that we had this much mythology. And I'm super interested in diving deeper into that.

Joi: 27:49

I wish you would've come across the sisters, the, the six other Mami wata because it seemed like they were all on the same kind of journey and so like, I feel like they should have been like pretty close proximity. I think she came across one other at the very beginning, but

Jann: 28:03

Yeah, it was only one. And that's one of the things I had about this book too, is I was expecting it to be a lot more underwater and I was kind of really disappointed that it wasn't

Joi: 28:13

But you know,

Jann: 28:14

I wanted to be in the ocean the whole time. And then, Right at the beginning of the book, she's like, make sure you stay in human form. And I'm like, shit.

Joi: 28:22

No, what I did like about that wasn't in the ocean the whole time is that it, when we have black characters, they tend to transform from being black to being a frog or to being, you know what I mean? Like to being a soul, you know?

Jann: 28:37

Yeah. But I feel like that stuff like being a frog, like that just means that they're not representing them and their skin and everything. Like she was still very much black as a mermaid. So

Joi: 28:46

True. You're right. You're right. Just a thought.

Jann: 28:50

just a thought. I mean, I get it though. I get what you're saying. Um, it was nice that they did a little reverse swap there, but just, you know, when you're talking about mermaids, I wanna see a mermaid a little bit

Joi: 28:59

I mean, right.

Jann: 29:03

So I was just talking about like, um, You were saying the Mami Wata, and I was saying, I think they're gonna be in the sequel, so she's gonna be like living underwater. Yeah. And I forgot that Orisha's name actually, now that I like bragged about how, well, I know the, the names.

Joi: 29:19

Oh yeah. I've read so many books about Orisha.

Jann: 29:22

I'm pretty knowledgeable.

Joi: 29:24

hard.

Jann: 29:26

Shut up. Whatever. But the black unicorn too that led her to the fairies. Do you remember the name of that one?

Joi: 29:37

No, but I looked it up. I didn't know what the hell she was describing. I was like, what is this creature? But yeah,

Jann: 29:45

I just, I really want them to make it a movie so we can see them all.

Joi: 29:48

I want them to make a good movie so we can see them all

Jann: 29:53

That's the asterisk. As long as it's good.

Joi: 29:57

that's right. If you're not gonna put the effort into it, don't bother.

Jann: 30:03

So another one of my theories. So the first theory was that they were gonna be underwater. Didn't happen. The second theory was that Cola was actually a villain. Didn't happen. Ended up being my favorite character. Now the third theory was like when Yemoja was telling her not to feel too much for any human, I thought it was too obvious that she was talking about Kola. So I thought she was gonna run into her family and that's what was gonna make her turn into sea foam, you know, cuz she was trying so hard to remember her family. Like the whole time I was like, she's gonna run into her dad, or one of her family members and that's gonna be it. Like how do you not feel for them, you know?

Joi: 30:44

Yeah,

Jann: 30:45

But yeah, they were just talking about romance, so that surprised me.

Joi: 30:49

but yeah, I was like, why was she able to do all of this on land? And she could never go back home. I was surprised cuz her name wasn't like, it means to come home or something like that. I guess

Jann: 31:00

it means follow me home.

Joi: 31:02

yeah, I guess cuz her ocean, the ocean is her home now. But still,

Jann: 31:06

I think she didn't remember, like even when she saw the guy on the boat and she was like, yeah, that guy has to be from my village. Like he's dressed like that. I remember his like wardrobe. She still didn't remember the name of the village, and that, and she was fighting time, like they were racing this Issun guy they thought the whole time. So she didn't really have time to say, okay, just a sidetrack real quick, let's go here. But yeah, for some reason I thought they were gonna run into somebody on the boat that they were on or something, and that didn't happen. So yeah, those are my, the three theories that did not come to fruition. How about you? Was there anything that you thought would happen that didn't happen? Or did you predict anything that happened?

Joi: 31:49

I definitely thought she was gonna go home. I definitely thought she was gonna make it back home, especially cuz her memories were getting longer, more detailed. As she was a human longer.

Jann: 31:59

Mm-hmm.

Joi: 32:00

So that's something I really thought, I really hoped that would come back. I thought they would run into a lot more, or jimbos the white people. Portuguese people,

Jann: 32:08

Yeah,

Joi: 32:09

and have it issue with them. It was like one

Jann: 32:12

too. And I'm like, that's one of the things that I liked that they weren't in it.

Joi: 32:16

exactly. Yeah. And then the only other thing I could think of is just like, I was trying to picture the geography of where they were. So she had to be in the Atlantic Ocean at the beginning. Right. But she couldn't have been that far off, I don't think, because she was on an island constantly. Right. That was warm and then like sunny and all that. And then when they hit the shore, they went inland for like maybe half a day on a river and then walked for a day. To get to his village and then his village was able to get to the beach. But that side of Africa is very like, like steep. It's like mountains and then water. So I'm just trying to figure out where they were. Basically,

Jann: 33:03

That literally did not occur to me at all, and I have like absolutely no interest, like

Joi: 33:08

geography is not, not worried

Jann: 33:11

No.

Joi: 33:13

okay.

Jann: 33:14

Like, what are you saying? Like what are you even saying right now?

Joi: 33:18

I was like, this doesn't

Jann: 33:19

were thinking about.

Joi: 33:21

You're sitting here saying you can't trust Kola. And I'm like, first of all, the cliffs, you can't just walk across to get to the beach.

Jann: 33:29

didn't trust the author like Natasha Bowen is not to be trusted, is what you were saying.

Joi: 33:35

I'm saying that she didn't know the geography of Africa, and I guess, but that's neither here nor there, I guess. But we're also talking about Orishas and everything, so.

Jann: 33:45

Yeah. Yeah. There's also that. There were a lot of things like that that like, uh, definitely not the geography, but that I were expecting that just didn't come to fruition. Um, here's a question. Would you have saved Kola?

Joi: 34:07

I think I would've, there's something of black, black about being in a situation where, you know, the slave trade thing is happening. You've been a part of it, and you're like, this is my job. I'm just gonna get his soul. Make sure he moves on. So obviously you care about what happens to these people, but at the same time, he's like this. Why would I let him drown while he's looking at me? That's like I'm part of the issue at that point.

Jann: 34:35

Yeah.

Joi: 34:35

Now, I don't know if I would bring him back to the island. I would like hit some driftwood, maybe good luck, but I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

Jann: 34:48

I dunno. I dunno. Yeah, I'm with you. There's no way I wasn't saving them. There is no way I wasn't saving him, but like, um, I feel like I would've stick to her original plan of let's get him off this island before anyone notices. Um, once he started throwing a temper tantrum about going back faster, I would've been like, okay, now you're on your own. I wouldn't have called, I would not have caught Yemoja like he asked. It was just very interesting to me, that whole dynamic. And I feel like his temper tantrum is exactly why I didn't trust him, but I don't think I was thinking like really, okay, he's been through like he was literally about to be traded into slavery.

Joi: 35:28

And thrown into the ocean. I mean, it's one of those things too. It's just like, I wouldn't have caught her at all. It's one of those things where you hit your sibling too hard, you're like, shh, no one else gotta know about this. We'll figure it out. Let's make you a boat real quick. You can go wherever you gotta go, but you can't stay here.

Jann: 35:46

Yeah.

Joi: 35:49

Yeah. And he had an attitude I love how she was hung up on, like, where's the thank you. Like I'm risking my life to help you. Like, where's it at?

Jann: 35:57

that's where I was, that's where I was. I wouldn't have called her. I, I would've been like, I don't know how, but you want, like, you can either get off the island or you can stay here and die. Which is it?

Joi: 36:08

You can't

Jann: 36:08

he was like

Joi: 36:09

my home.

Jann: 36:09

hidden stuff. I swear I thought for the life of me that he like got caught trying to trade people and got traded himself and he was trying to get back because he was worried about what they would do to his siblings since he ended up being a trader. That was my thought process. Like, why else does it matter if you're a day late? Like, how about you recover from almost dying? And I feel like she was thinking the same thing, like it's an extra day. Like you wait till morning, like what is the issue?

Joi: 36:37

I thought it was more of just maybe like his village was raided or something and he hid them like in a space that wasn't necessarily safe, but safe enough so they won't get traded. But it's like, I gotta get back to them. They're like six. They can't hunt, they can't gather their own berries or whatever. I gotta make sure that they're cool. So that's what I was thinking. Like he hid them somewhere and they wouldn't survive for a very long time without'em not saying how long? It's because you remember, when you talk about the slave trade, there were moments when you were snatched or sold and then kept in like an area and then sorted and taken onto a ship, and who's to know how long he sailed for on the ship and then he was sleep on an island? Don't know how far, so you just don't know like how long he's been away from them either.

Jann: 37:25

Yeah,

Joi: 37:26

yeah, I mean, I'd be person to get back to if someone was like, Hey, I saved you. Okay. Get me home please. Thanks. I have

Jann: 37:35

Okay. I would be like that too. okay, give me home please. But. He didn't say that. He said, whatever you're trying to do is not fast enough. You need to call a God here immediately. Oh, you can't call'em right this second. We gotta wait till tomorrow. No, you need to call them now.

Joi: 37:52

After

Jann: 37:52

that's a lot.

Joi: 37:53

up too with your wrist off bruise. I'm like, first of all, I'm not doing shit else. It's funny because she was very

Jann: 38:02

without a thank you.

Joi: 38:04

She was very patient with him. More patient than she was with Issa, that's for sure.

Jann: 38:11

that's what I don't get it. I mean, I liked Kola too. He was, ended up being my favorite, but I wouldn't have dealt with that

Joi: 38:18

I don't think he was my favorite at any point. I think he was more just like he is the person that's like, I have to do this cause I already saved him. It's one of those things where just like, oh look, I found a helpless animal like a puppy and I don't want a dog, but I can't put him back out on the street, you know?

Jann: 38:37

I feel like he was so likable after the whole temper tantrum. I didn't, I feel like I had more issues with her character than Kola. Like how she was like mad about random stuff, like the Yemoja not telling her, like she, she literally said I had a temp down my anger before I answered like, why didn't you tell me this? It's not her responsibility to, she is a Orisha, you're lucky you're alive right now. She made you a mama wate.

Joi: 39:03

Wata.

Jann: 39:05

what did I say?

Joi: 39:06

Mommy Wa,

Jann: 39:10

I But mami wata. Yeah. I, I just thought that was insane that you're asking a God to explain her every move to you.

Joi: 39:19

yeah. After

Jann: 39:20

know, it is not even like asking her, it is her, you being mad that she didn't do it preemptively was crazy to me.

Joi: 39:27

Like Simidele. She's definitely not a perfect character and she's not even my favorite character. She's just the person we're following. Um, But

Jann: 39:36

Yikes. I mean, I, I, that's not where I thought you were going with that.

Joi: 39:41

but

Jann: 39:41

thought you was just gonna say like, she's not a perfect character and that's why I love her. But she, you said no, we're she's just, she's just the one that's there.

Joi: 39:51

I feel like if I was another Mami Wata and I knew what was happening, I was like, fucking cidel. She couldn't just like, we have one job, you know? I don't know. It's just we're following her. I'm fine with her. The same thing. We're following Kola. I'm fine with him, but I think I, I lean more towards liking her because she is, the Mami Wata, because she actually saves them, because she's actually going to take him back to his village because she needs the rings or whatever. But, It seems to me Kola was also a headache the whole time. He kept almost dying. He kept doing just, it was exhausting. Basically. Every time he came to a new scene, I was like, okay, so how's Kola gonna die this time? Like, you know,

Jann: 40:33

Yikes.

Joi: 40:35

that's how

Jann: 40:35

List some off for me cuz maybe at missing him, like obviously he was thrown overboard. Not his fault. What was the second one? I remember the dragon too, but the bridge broke. So not his fault, but what else?

Joi: 40:47

my, that's my thing though, it was never his fault, like the storm. And then she had to follow the unicorn to yumbos to see where he was. Right.

Jann: 40:56

Yeah,

Joi: 40:57

the hyenas, when he was bitten. And you already got the dragon too. So the hyenas,

Jann: 41:04

everybody was bitten by the hyenas though, which we haven't. Okay. So if Kola wasn't my favorite character, we haven't talked about the girl Yinka.

Joi: 41:16

Inka, I think. Yeah.

Jann: 41:17

I couldn't remember her name, but I liked her so much and I really hope that she comes back in the second book. I'm really hoping that they like recognized her as kin again and didn't bite her. What do you think? Do you think she survived?

Joi: 41:29

No, I think she survived, but I don't think we're gonna see her again. There would be no reason for us to go back to the island in the second book.

Jann: 41:35

But maybe there's a third book?

Joi: 41:38

I liked how they were like the werewolves. They're werewolves with their hyenas.

Jann: 41:43

Yeah. I just really wanna see her again. I loved her, dedication to being so strong and being a warrior. And then it turns out that she's descended from this, Werewolf Warrior Tribe, just seems amazing. And I, I really, I she didn't know at all. Like even in the, that time, like, she was like, they said, are you kin? And she's like, what, what are you, what do you mean? I'm like, kin. But yeah, I liked her a lot and I don't even, a spinoff would be great with me. I would love to hear more about her story being in this hyena tribe or whatever it is. But yeah,

Joi: 42:21

Your team Yinka.

Jann: 42:23

I am, I am, I, I wanna see her again in some capacity, whatever capacity.

Joi: 42:29

no, I thought that would've been interesting. So now that I think about it, do you think that, was she the one that said that her village was like raided or something and everyone was gonna die and the mom brought her to that village?

Jann: 42:40

Yeah, I think she said the mom was stranded and was gonna die, and her dad found the mom and brought her back. But yeah, she didn't know anything about where she came from, the village.

Joi: 42:51

gotcha. Okay. I'm wondering if that's when Issun took them to that island to protect it.

Jann: 42:56

I'm thinking now the Issun is not keeping them there since he's bound himself, that maybe they'll have some freedom and we'll see'em that way. I don't know. It's hopeful thinking. I would love to see that whole story, her like getting acclimated with them and just getting freed and Yeah, all of that.

Joi: 43:15

Oh my gosh.

Jann: 43:15

to see it.

Joi: 43:17

At the end when Issun was pretending to be Kola, I was like, how do you not see through this immediately? He would never talk to his brother and sister like that. Like, what? Why's it taking so long?

Jann: 43:25

agree. Even the fact that he made it up there first, even though he's bleeding and stuff. Like how'd you pull that off? Uhuh. That don't make sense.

Joi: 43:34

And you're being super aggressive

Jann: 43:36

So aggressive.

Joi: 43:39

like

Jann: 43:39

even if he wasn't being aggressive, like why does it matter where I put the ring right now? That's not helping us at all. Don't you mean like how do we get outta here? What do you mean? Where did I put the ring? Why is that top of mind,

Joi: 43:50

he's more pressed about the rings than Simidele was. She's like, we gotta go first.

Jann: 43:57

not to mention this guy, so like quick before he gets here, what is that gonna do? Why is that what we're in a rush to do doesn't make any sense. Yeah. That was not at all stealthy.

Joi: 44:09

Not at all. It's

Jann: 44:11

Everyone saw that coming from a mile away, especially since he was just pretending to be the other guy. We know you can change

Joi: 44:18

right?

Jann: 44:20

What's happening.

Joi: 44:21

Hmm.

Jann: 44:22

Okay. So one other thing I wanted to discuss. Um, I saw on TikTok that someone said that they wish that the main characters, so Simi and Kola were gender swapped. And I thought that was an interesting concept because first of all, black male mermaid awesome.

Joi: 44:39

Yeah.

Jann: 44:40

And then, also the fact that we're just so used to the narrative being in America right now, in particular with BLM and everything else, like black women coming to the aid of black men, that it would be nice to see the reverse since it's fantasy. Like let's just do it. What are your thoughts on that?

Joi: 44:59

I would love that. Absolutely. Gender swapped the shit out of that. Yeah.

Jann: 45:05

So when you say Kola was just getting saved and saved and saved, like having a black woman as a damsel in distress every once in a while, instead of being the one to fix everything and take care of everyone. I, I feel like I could get into that.

Joi: 45:18

Especially because it wasn't like he was not

Jann: 45:21

was a damsel distress though.

Joi: 45:23

Yeah, he was. Absolutely. He was, but he was like, no, I gotta do this to go get my brother and sister. That was constantly his MO,

Jann: 45:31

he had a drive. Yeah. And like I said, he was a, he had a good character. I love that he kept his word for everything. Even when she was like, you don't have to go with me, just point me in the right direction. He's like, no. I said, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do it. even before he knew his siblings were safe or not, he was like, don't just stay with me. We're doing this, you know?

Joi: 45:50

I kind of think I would like the book even more. I think would've got a six star five if it was gender swapped.

Jann: 45:57

I thought that was such a cool idea. yeah, I. I feel like that would be cool for sure.

Joi: 46:02

Yeah. Who is this TikTok person? I gotta

Jann: 46:05

I don't know. We're gonna I'm gonna find it and insert like their name. But yeah, that was a good, that was a good take.

Joi: 46:13

Wow. I love that. Yeah. Oh

Jann: 46:17

Yeah.

Joi: 46:19

Hmm.

Jann: 46:20

All right. So did the discussion make you like the book any more or less

Joi: 46:26

I'm still where I'm at. I'm still at a five out of

Jann: 46:29

still five?

Joi: 46:30

It's more just like, I'm glad I was able to talk to somebody about it and see their perspectives from it. It's just one of those books that you have to talk about with somebody cuz like it was good.

Jann: 46:39

it was good. It had a lot of good things in it. I just feel like for some reason it was rushed. She had it just made it a little bit longer, did a little bit more character development and slowed it down a little. There were so many things happening back to back to back that I couldn't even revel in some of the twists, like the twins being Orisha. I feel like they said that and then immediately just moved on. Like, how is this not a bigger deal?

Joi: 47:01

It was that, and then the reveal of Issun being the guy. Cause I was like, who was this guy again? you know, I didn't realize. I'm like, okay. Like he was with them the whole time.

Jann: 47:12

I did not get a clear sense of who all was on their journey at the end. Even when the guy went back from the bridge, I was like, wait, I thought, I thought him and the guy that is Issun was like pretending to be was the same person until that happened.

Joi: 47:26

I thought it was four of them all together and not with, not Issa, but I thought it was Kola, Yinka and then the guy. That's all I thought it was.

Jann: 47:37

Yeah.

Joi: 47:38

it was just a lot of people

Jann: 47:39

And then even Issa dying, I feel like they spent just as much time on that as the guy going across the bridge, you know, they spent no time on it.

Joi: 47:49

I think it's interesting because in this situation you still have to move fast. Like he's gone, he gotta go. You know, we're still in danger here, so that makes sense. But still damn.

Jann: 47:59

but when Yanka got cut, like, like, um, when she left, they could have still been moving and they like waited for him to have a whole cry.

Joi: 48:08

Mm-hmm. Sure.

Jann: 48:10

know, Kola cried and stopped crying and was doing some other stuff and they were still sitting there, with Issa it was like, let's go.

Joi: 48:19

I told him not to come.

Jann: 48:24

I was really hoping we wouldn't say that because I feel like we were all thinking it.

Joi: 48:28

That's what I

Jann: 48:29

Like he offered absolutely no help after they got there. To your point,

Joi: 48:33

didn't even walk.

Jann: 48:34

nothing. He didn't even walk. Like, what? And when they said yeah, I wanna fight, fight who? Where you are not only a child, but a fairy child that's even smaller than a child.

Joi: 48:47

Now let's be realistic here. You said this is how it's gonna go, you're gonna die. I did like how,

Jann: 48:55

yeah.

Joi: 48:55

one was off limits for dying either. I seriously thought that Kola was going up at the end, and I was kind of hoping for it just because I was just like, This is realistic. Y'all just fought. How many guys, how many outs did you get? Kola

Jann: 49:08

How many like times did he heal?

Joi: 49:11

right. I didn't expect the twins to bring him back with the soul or anything. She's I could get the soul and like, and keep it with me or whatever, but that'd be fucked up, you know? I'm like, yeah, it would be, let him go. I feel like that would've been a major character development for her to just bring the twins back and then go to the ocean again. And that's it. Like you did what you could do way above and beyond what you could do. And you saved the twins too, so your journey's over, you did what you're supposed to do,

Jann: 49:39

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I, I'm not gonna lie, I was thinking that same thing, like he could have died and it would've been fine because obviously someone is off limits for dying. You know, Kola,

Joi: 49:49

right?

Jann: 49:50

I can't count how many times he got saved and healed, and so saved and healed.

Joi: 49:54

I can, I can count them many ways. I don't know.

Jann: 49:59

unless you can give me a number right now, I don't want to hear it.

Joi: 50:03

I don't know, Kola, it's just it's one of those things where it's just you're watching a kid show and you know, certain people are safe. They will never, and I feel like it doesn't put much of the, you, you included, you added more people. But once the main characters are safe, it's the, what's it called? Like the, the threshold for being in danger isn't there anymore. I'm like,

Jann: 50:25

Oh, yeah,

Joi: 50:26

it out of this. it resets at the beginning again, you know,

Jann: 50:29

yeah, yeah. I would've enjoyed it. I feel like there's a lot more things that she can explore without Kola and the future books, since she's, you know, she's underwater, she's a mermaid. Like I feel like he could have died at the end.

Joi: 50:40

absolutely the mission was accomplished. Mm-hmm.

Jann: 50:43

yeah, exactly. Like you did what you set out to do you, yeah.

Joi: 50:48

And just like how the little mermaid, like the, the real one where it's like she actually turned to sea foam at the end. I feel like with her just. Jumping off the cliff or whatever, into the water to the darkness, and then him dying. That would've been sad, but it would've been like, damn, that was

Jann: 51:02

A good ending. Yeah.

Joi: 51:05

Because then even the new book could follow the twins going home or could follow her, you know? It could be either, either way.

Jann: 51:13

Mm-hmm.

Joi: 51:14

and it could have been realistic, like, okay, the twins gotta figure out how to get back and use their like God powers to figure it out. You know? I don't know the ending abruptly, I was listening to it when I was working last night and I had to rewind it a couple times, was that the end? And then the prologue came up,

Jann: 51:34

Did that just happen?

Joi: 51:36

bitch, she just jump in that water. I thought she was gonna just not go to the deep or whatever. I thought she was actually going to, I had a feeling that he told her to come to the bottom, but I was like, if, if she was gonna send the message to, oh, Ola, Ari, I can't get it. I'm so sorry. I'm so disrespectful. I'm, I'm trying really hard. But, yeah. if she was gonna send the message that he was still there after being there for so long and his punishment's over, I thought that he was gonna let it go. I thought the deal was, tell him about me. To set me to let me go, you know? I didn't think like, okay, well I'm just stuck here, you know?

Jann: 52:11

I thought she was gonna offer to tell him. So I thought it was silly of her to say, let him set the terms. I feel like if she had offered that, maybe he wouldn't have thought of the other thing. but when he whispered it, I knew that that's what, like, okay, so he wants her to be down there or to Trade places with him. I wasn't sure which, but I knew she was gonna be down there.

Joi: 52:31

I was just like, why wouldn't she just tell him? Like, why didn't he ask her to tell him that, that he's there, you know, that she's going for the rings to go send messages directly to the, the Olo Maari.

Jann: 52:44

Olodumare.

Joi: 52:45

Olodummare like, why wouldn't you just like, I'm gonna tell him that you're still here and that Issun didn't say anything. Maybe Issun can trace spaces so that you can be free and that he can suffer his consequences that he caused because he hasn't been sending

Jann: 53:00

used to being down there. Now. Maybe he wants to sh like he wants to see the suffering.

Joi: 53:05

I mean, you can be down there if you want to. You don't have to be chained down there, you know what I mean? And you don't have to chain my ass down there. It's cold bitch.

Jann: 53:14

she did talk a lot at the beginning about how cold she was in the ocean.

Joi: 53:18

yeah, I

Jann: 53:18

That made me a little sad

Joi: 53:20

I was like, you should, like, it shouldn't feel like good and warm. Like I didn't think that being a a Mami wata would, you would be a warm-blooded creature with no blubber.

Jann: 53:32

Mm-hmm. I mean, yeah. I, I wouldn't expect her to be warm-blooded. It's like a reptile, right? With a fish. Or the fish, like you pull up a fish, it's cold, like you still feel the cold. It just doesn't kill you.

Joi: 53:45

I figure it would be like when she transformed, she's fully human. She can feel the sun and everything, but when she's a a Mami wata, she'd be very comfortable in the water. I didn't think you would need to have a blanket while you swimming around,

Jann: 53:57

Well, she didn't say she needed a blanket. She just said she missed the warmth. You know, like she wasn't saying, I'm uncomfortable, I'm cold. She just said, I'm cold and I miss being warm, like feeling sun on my skin.

Joi: 54:10

I hate being cold so much. I think I just took that personally like, yeah, that

Jann: 54:13

Okay.

Joi: 54:17

Hands off. I would never wanna be a mermaid if I was always cold. What kind of shit is that?

Jann: 54:23

you are so ridiculous.

Joi: 54:24

is like a genie wish. Like, yeah, you can be a mermaid, but you're gonna be uncomfortable in the ocean for damn. Damn, I can't even get a Snuggie.

Jann: 54:34

You always have those terms, like can't just be blissful. Something shitty has to happen as well.

Joi: 54:41

I mean, I guess, I mean, I thought that the thing that wasn't gonna be blissful was that like, I don't know, you can't walk no more. Like that's another thing. Every time she transformed back into the mermaid, into a human, it's her legs. Um, it sounded painful. I didn't like it when she was like, oh, yeah, I can feel the skills like coming through my skin and I can feel my legs tearing apart or getting back together. Mm-hmm.

Jann: 55:10

I didn't read it as painful. That's interesting. I read it as noisy.

Joi: 55:15

That's a little

Jann: 55:16

reason I read it as noisy is because when, um, I forget, Yenta saw her coming up and she saw the end of her transformation. I was like, yeah, there's no hiding in that. She saw all that.

Joi: 55:26

Right.

Jann: 55:28

She heard it. She saw it. Yeah.

Joi: 55:30

What would you

Jann: 55:31

you're exposed.

Joi: 55:32

if, if you were like on that ship and you're just like, oh yeah, she's a mermaid, so don't worry about it. are you saying, Kola? whatcha talking about?

Jann: 55:42

Well this is also the same world where um, Shango, comes and throws lightning at your boat and you're like, cool down. We're fine. And then you just have a chat after. So

Joi: 55:52

I mean, I guess it's just it's one of those things where you're just like, like imagine just being a regular human going through this stuff, being next to a Mami wata, seeing these other gods and goddesses knowing that your twin brothers and sisters and you're just normal. You're just like, I feel like Maribel.

Jann: 56:13

Oh, they are? Yeah. Right. To be fair, they are from the village and everybody knows that the two twins are Orisha, so maybe that's why they're used to it,

Joi: 56:21

May, but the thing about them is that they're not like fully functioning gods. They're just like, we're here. So our area,

Jann: 56:28

to it all, you know.

Joi: 56:30

I guess

Jann: 56:33

It is like the cartoon Hercules where no one was surprised when they saw Phil tee tees. Like they know stuff like that exist.

Joi: 56:40

true in the Yobo, but yeah. But they hit Issa for so long and they hid her identity too. Like they didn't say that there was a mermaid trade going on either or a

Jann: 56:52

They did though. They did about the mermaids. Remember she said the one fisherman saw her and she immediately saw the greed in his eyes, like he was gonna catch her and sell her.

Joi: 57:03

True. Who said that? Was that Yemoja?

Jann: 57:06

No, that was, um, Simidele said that she said the one time that she was seen was by a fisherman.

Joi: 57:13

maybe because it's like the culture too, This is their culture. These are their God and guidance. So they know about it. And even when they asked Kola, Yemoja asked Kola about like, Hey, what does your bub allow know about me? What do they know about my Mami Wata? And he was able to say that she had seven daughters and all the, yeah. So maybe that's it. Maybe it's their culture. So maybe it wasn't the fisherman's culture. It was like, oh shit, I fuck got Mermaid. I'm gonna be so rich,

Jann: 57:38

rare. It's not like you see them everywhere. You know? Like if you saw Mami Wata, even if you knew they exist and there's only seven of them in existence, of course you're gonna like, not of course. But if you're that type of person, you'll be shocked. But then you're gonna say, yeah, how can I make money off of this? Is what she, and she also, no, I don't think most people would. But I'm saying if you're gonna be that person that's constantly think about how to make money, you don't care about Who you're hurting in the meantime. Like if you see something rare, you're gonna wanna sell it,

Joi: 58:09

True.

Jann: 58:10

But

Joi: 58:11

oh

Jann: 58:12

some people, some people,

Joi: 58:16

yeah.

Jann: 58:17

and you keep interrupting me and I keep forgetting what I was gonna say.

Joi: 58:20

I'm sorry.

Jann: 58:21

No, it's not okay.

Joi: 58:24

I don't accept your apology.

Jann: 58:27

yeah, that's what she was. She also said um, once she figured out that they knew about her, she said that her second fear of telling people one was the greed in the fisherman's eyes, and the second was just not being accepted. Like having them ostracized her because of it. So there's probably that fear as well.

Joi: 58:45

I think it's interesting when she, the second half of the book, she kept saying I'm not human. I'm not like them anymore. I can't be a part of this anymore. I'm like, if that's the case, you did all of this stuff, like what's to stop you from doing it again? Just going to your village and making some pepper soup and coming back and doing your job. You know, I don't understand. What was the issue of her not seeing her family anymore? Is it that they want, want her to stay? Or like, if you can explain to random people that your Mami wata, I think you can explain to your, your parents like, Hey, I got stolen by the MBOs. I escaped. Yemoja saved me because Yemoja birthed me. So mom, you know what the hell I'm talking about. So why can't you do

Jann: 59:30

a lot of that too is at the beginning they were saying you need to distance yourself from your life now. And I still feel like even though she didn't see her family, the, she said, if you feel too much for any human, you're gonna turn into sea foam. You know, like they forget I would assume so if you feel too much for any human. So I'd assume like them forgetting when they're in the water is like a defense mechanism almost. Cuz you can't feel for humans anymore. Like you're not part of that world

Joi: 59:59

but isn't you saving their souls? The same thing as feeling for humans.

Jann: 1:00:04

not for one particular human. You just have love for humanity, I guess.

Joi: 1:00:08

I guess, I don't know. That doesn't make sense to me, but at the same time, it does make sense. You know what I mean? I doubt that they really age or anything too. So that could be hard to see your family eventually aging and dying. I don't know.

Jann: 1:00:23

yeah, that could also be a defense mechanism. They have a job to do. They can't just be going off seeing their family people's souls need saving.

Joi: 1:00:31

And that's true, but she only had to do one soul a week. I would've been traveling like, oh, Nick, this the Ter Sea. It's so warm. Ooh, it's so cold in Alaska. Oh,

Jann: 1:00:43

You would be sold first. Joi. You'd be seen by so many people and sold off immediately because you're doing too much. That's why. All right. Final thoughts? Any final thoughts that you wanna get out there?

Joi: 1:00:59

I think that everyone should get this book if you haven't gotten it already. I feel like this is a good beginning to African culture, and just like me starting my own research and looking back and see if we can find anything. We did our ancestry test both from West Africa generally, broadly, you know, that's all we could really

Jann: 1:01:19

there like that. I'm just kidding.

Joi: 1:01:26

So it just makes me wanna kinda like know a little bit more about the area that we're from and what we were taking from, and I'm glad to see some of this more to mainstream. It's good. I love it.

Jann: 1:01:37

Yeah,

Joi: 1:01:37

This is definitely a new favorite and hopefully I can pass it on to younger generations in our family too, so they can read it so they don't have to only have the redheaded mermaid, but.

Jann: 1:01:46

All right. How many final thoughts do you have, girl?

Joi: 1:01:49

It is a good opener too when they have, is it Chloe or Haley? That's gonna be the new little mermaids. That's also nice. So,

Jann: 1:01:57

think it's Chloe. Yeah, I agree. I'm glad that this came out before the movie. I, anyway, my final thoughts, it just, I, I agree. I feel like it's a really good book, a really good intro. If you've never like read about African Orishas or anything like that, you, it's only a couple of Orishas in here, um, like five or six. But it, it's a good intro and you get to know their roles a little bit. And yeah, it was a fun read for sure. I would definitely reread it and I'm looking forward

Joi: 1:02:26

How many final thoughts are you gonna have? Just askin.

Jann: 1:02:31

Let's not act like you didn't talk for like 10 minutes straight. All right, so that wraps up Skin of the Deep. So our next book that we're going,

Joi: 1:02:44

skin of the deep.

Jann: 1:02:48

so that wraps Skin of the Sea, and I wanna go ahead and introduce our next book, if that's okay. Joi,

Joi: 1:02:58

Thanks Natasha Bowen for giving us such a good book. That's, I loved it. Mm-hmm.

Jann: 1:03:03

Absolutely wonderful job. Can't wait to read the second one. Um, and we're not actually gonna read that next week. Next week we're going to be reading the Wedding Date by Jasmine Guillory, which is a romance. So I'm gonna give you a quick synopsis of that and then we'll call it a day. Thank you. A groomsman. And his last minute guests are about to discover if a fake date can go the distance in A fun and flirty debut novel. Agreeing to go to a wedding with a guy she gets stuck with in an elevator is something Alexa Monroe wouldn't normally do, but there's something about Drew Nichols that's too hard to resist.

Joi: 1:03:38

How

Jann: 1:03:38

I'm just

Joi: 1:03:39

caught up to go to a wedding in a, okay, I'm sorry. Keep going.

Jann: 1:03:44

What?

Joi: 1:03:44

Like how do you get caught up to go to a wedding with some random person? You in an elevator. You only people I meet in elevators?

Jann: 1:03:51

Well, they got stuck on the elevator. I assume that they had it. You know what? We're gonna read the book and we're gonna find out. Well, that's all that we have for today. So,, until next time, Joi, do you wanna tell them where they can find us.

Joi: 1:04:06

Yeah. You can find us on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok at Black Girl Reads Podcast. The Blacks, spelled with BLK. So, BLK Girls reads podcast.

Jann: 1:04:19

Twitter, TikTok and Instagram. Perfect.

Joi: 1:04:22

And tell us what you think about the book. Tell us what you think about us. Only nice things.

Jann: 1:04:27

Yeah. Oh, I almost forgot. So if you want a chance to win your own copy of Skin of the Sea, go ahead and leave us a review. Five star, hopefully leave us a review, tell us what you think, and we're gonna pick a winner out of everyone who leaves a review, and send you your brand new copy of Skin of the Sea, not Skin of the Deep.

Joi: 1:04:55

That's right. That's right.

Jann: 1:04:59

All right. Well thanks everyone. See you next time.

Joi: 1:05:02

See ya.