Diving into Darkness: 'Let's Play White' | BGR Book Club Podcast S2E3

Welcome, horror aficionados and book lovers, to another spine-tingling episode of BLK Girl Reads! Today, we're diving deep into the world of chilling narratives and thought-provoking storytelling as we explore Chesya Burke's masterful collection of horror and science fiction, "Let's Play White."

Join us as we embark on a journey through the macabre, discussing this remarkable collection that pushes the boundaries of traditional horror and non-fiction storytelling. This episode is a must-listen if you're searching for captivating horror book recommendations for 2023 or simply eager to broaden your reading horizons.

We'll introduce Chesya Burke, an author who has left an indelible mark on the horror genre. Her unique perspective as a BIPOC (Black, Indigenous, and People of Color) writer brings fresh and diverse voices to the horror landscape. We'll explore the intersection of horror, science fiction, and memoir in "Let's Play White."

Throughout the episode, we'll delve into the various horror short stories that make up this collection. We'll discuss the themes, characters, and eerie atmospheres that Burke expertly crafts, ensuring that every tale lingers in your thoughts long after reading.

In addition to the horror elements, we'll explore the non-fiction aspects of Burke's work, providing insights into how she combines the personal with the supernatural. As we approach the spooky season of 2023, we'll offer "Let's Play White" as a must-add to your TBR list for those seeking memorable Halloween book recommendations.

If you're a fan of booktube and booktubers, our read-along vlog will give you an insider's view of our reading experience and reactions to the stories within the collection. We'll also discuss the broader context of BIPOC horror literature and its importance in the world of books.

So, whether you're a horror aficionado looking for the latest spine-chiller or someone intrigued by diverse narratives and unique storytelling, don't miss this episode of BLK Girl Reads. Join us as we delve into the shadows, reviewing and discussing "Let's Play White" by Chesya Burke.

Prepare for a captivating exploration of horror, science fiction, and memoir as we unravel this unforgettable collection's pages. Happy reading, and may your spine-tingling journey begin!

Transcript

Jackie: 10:36

When he threw the food and he never picked it up, that's a sign of mental distress too, where you just willing to live with stuff like that. So she kept giving us clues that he's losing it, you know, all this stuff he was going through, but the cause was,

Jann: 10:53

it could definitely be mental distress, my thing is, if you've been fighting this rat this whole time, to your point mom, like it was food from the night before and he's like, well now I can't leave food out anymore. I have to do the dishes every night. I'm like, you should have been doing that anyway.

Jackie: 11:08

Yeah. Yeah, true. Right.

Jann: 11:12

So, yeah, maybe it was like a form of like... Depression manifesting. It was definitely depressing that he, like, couldn't clean it up because he was racing out to yet another interview that he got denied for on the

Jackie: 11:24

Right.

Jann: 11:28

Alright, so yeah, that was Walter and the Three Legged King.

Joi: 11:31

Three legged.

Jann: 11:32

Um, the fact that he kept the foot was when I knew for a fact like, Oh, you lost it. You gone. Like, you are not here

Jackie: 11:41

When nobody else,

Jann: 11:42

He didn't even wash it off. He just took the bloody foot and put it in his pocket and

Jackie: 11:46

I knew when nobody else saw a rat but him. In the whole building. Nobody.

Jann: 11:54

I mean, that could happen, though, if he's the grossest one there.

Jackie: 11:57

And that's probably why he's the only one that saw a rat. He's not washing his dishes the next, the day, the night of. Uh

Joi: 12:04

My thing was, for a while, I was like, a magical book kind of going on. Before the rat spoke, I thought that the rat was the superintendent, because he always showed up right when the rat, like, disappeared.

Jackie: 12:16

We'll see. the thing. Remember when I told you I got off the train that time and saw that rat on the stairs, and nobody jumped but me. Everybody was like, it's just a rat. I thought it was a squirrel. So, I got into that whole mental thing like, nobody's seeing it, but just like me, when I jumped, they all thought like, it's just a rat. Like, oh no.

Joi: 12:38

Yeah, walk in New York

Jackie: 12:39

There you go. There You go.

Joi: 12:42

You can't look down.

Jann: 12:45

The fact that like the magical part of this story only manifested in like the last scene Kind of led me to believe like yeah, there's a story here But they're really just introducing us to the fact that there's going to be magical realism in the series That's what it felt like to me

Jackie: 13:02

I agree.

Joi: 13:03

Makes sense.

Jann: 13:05

So with that, we're going to introduce ourselves to the rest of the stories. I think this is a good time for everybody to say, um, what their favorite story was and let's talk about it. So who wants to go.

Jackie: 13:17

go.

Joi: 13:20

So, I actually keep changing my favorite story and right now the winner is what she saw when they flew away. And I think that I'm sitting on that one being my favorite.

Jann: 13:35

Okay. What makes it your first, give us a quick synopsis and then tell us why you liked it.

Joi: 13:40

Okay. So, the basic story is that there's a mother and I think a daughter, um, living in an apartment, um, and basically there was just a child, another daughter, I think, had died, um. Fairly, uh, was it fairly recently, and they're both still grieving, and the, um, the child that died had these two little lovebirds. Well, not a lovebird, but like a girl bird, and she had a baby, and she just kept both of them. And they've been keeping these birds, um, kind of as like, just the last thing we have of our sibling, of our daughter, whatever. And, um, the birds get stuck in the wall, and they're, they're just trying to ignore it, like they'll find their way out eventually. Cause they went in through like some hole or something in the wall. And, um, You know, it's driving them crazy overnight and, you know, it's kind of like their grief driving them crazy. And then they both decide to get up in the middle of the night to kind of like break down the walls and get the birds out. And the mom asked the, the child, like, hey, you want to put them back into the crate, like the cage? And she goes, no, let them out. And that's kind of them, like, letting their, like, their grief out and like, you know, let, like, letting their... Their sibling, like, kind of like, you know, go to a better place or whatever, and they live on too, instead of holding on to grief. And I kind of like that.

Jann: 14:59

Yeah. So you like, so I think you did a good job doing a synopsis, which is a first. No, I'm just kidding.

Jackie: 15:09

My goodness!

Joi: 15:10

Wow!

Jann: 15:13

Have you noticed no one has asked you to do a synopsis in quite a while, Jewel?

Joi: 15:18

No one else done them either. No one else done them either. No

Jann: 15:23

You're right. You're right. No one wants to take on that job. But I think you did a good job doing a synopsis while also kind of explaining your interpretation, which is also my interpretation. Like I saw the... birds as grief. And what was interesting to me is that they approached the birds two different ways. Like the child that was left behind, like her daughter, um, was obsessed with the birds and wanted to take care of them. It was constantly like petting them and like feeding them. And when she wouldn't, it went into the wall, um, she was distraught. Like I need to take care of these birds. Like, how do I get them out? While the mom. Was the opposite like she completely ignored the bird. She was annoyed hearing the birds like and then when it was in the wall She was even more annoyed and yeah when they worked together Finally to get the birds out was when they were able to kind of relief that grief release that grief.

Joi: 16:11

Mm hmm. I think it's a good story to tell, especially to Black folks, too, because like, you hope that a lot of the time, like, now it's getting different, like, with therapy and everything, and just like talking with, like, your family and see that you're all suffering, even if it's in different ways, you know, just like how they were. So it's nice to kind of, like, see that they, like, kind of healed on their own, like, on their own, yeah, but they still, like, use each other to

Jackie: 16:33

they had to lean on each other. They had to lean on each other and work together. And that's the whole thing about that. Until they learned to work together, they couldn't handle their grief.

Joi: 16:45

yeah,

Jann: 16:48

Yeah, doing it on their own was causing the boat to go kind of crazy and erotic.

Joi: 16:53

yeah.

Jann: 16:56

All right. I like that one, too It's a very simple one. And yeah, okay. So mom, would

Jackie: 17:02

Now you guys know my favorite is Q Change with the zombies. Ha ha ha ha ha! No, I'm the zombie. Well, The zombie gentrification story. That's what I believe. Ha! Whereas they're held up in the ghetto trying to stay away from these folks who are, um, coming together like zombies, but they're almost like a hive. And they're taking over the ghetto and everything. I was like, Did she talk about gentrification? And she gotta be talking about gentrification and how they all act alike they're zombies and they're after the people in the ghetto and they all um Held up in the buildings trying to figure out how they're going to get electricity back on they cut off the electricity and all that Make them come out. I was like, I think this is gentrification. I really think that's what she's talking about Because the hide mine and all of that so that's my favorite story They never tell you what what it is, but eventually he had to succumb He decided to just go ahead and join the crowd, but I don't think that's what everybody will do.

Jann: 18:09

that's interesting. Um, I can give my opinion, but Joy, what do you think before I, I do about that one?

Joi: 18:18

I didn't see it as gentrification. I actually saw it as, um, like, minds opening up to the, like how we just talked about how therapy is new to the Black community. I'm kind of looking at it as like, New things coming into the community as well, and you have to accept it in order to be stronger and move on and live your life. Or you can stay hidden. Oh, you know what I mean? Stay hidden, you know, like literally in the dark, you know? So things like homophobia and things like that, it doesn't fly as easily as it

Jackie: 18:55

but think about

Joi: 18:56

know? So I think it's more of the thought coming into the

Jackie: 18:59

They didn't give him a choice. They, they didn't give him a choice. They were like, you know, like I said, it was that hive mind thing. You have to join the collective. You don't have a choice, you know? And that's what I didn't like about it. So I was like, yeah, this is weird. This is a little weird.

Joi: 19:14

But some things do, you just certainly, mm hmm.

Jann: 19:18

I was gonna say like that has like been a thing though, like a lot of things you can't just stay in the dark like you do like If society is moving along and you don't move along with it, you will get left behind, you know, like, the reason that I think it was more. So, like, um, thought of, like, Q change, you know, like, change isn't necessarily always good. But the reason I didn't see it as, like, a bad thing is because everything got wiped out. It wasn't just. The bad neighborhoods, the bad neighborhoods was the last thing standing and only because like everybody left them alone. Anyway, no one was over there messing with them because they were forgotten, you know, um, so what I thought, um, that story in particular, when they first started, they started talking about how people were changing and it wasn't even on the news. And when it was on the news, you saw all this violence and like zombies eating people and people running and it was just chaos. And like, they were vilifying these zombies and then when they actually had to leave their apartment to go get the lights cut on because again, the electricity was cut off. They saw someone like they saw the zombies zombies. Um, I say in quotes trying to convince people to come over to their side and these people are shooting them dead one by one. Remember they said like the news said the headshots aren't working. Like it's not going to kill them but the zombies were actually dying, and they still kept lining up to try to convince these people you know they weren't attacking or anything. Um, And it just wasn't a violent thing, you know, like the media was portraying it to be something that it wasn't, which leads me to, like, all the BLM protests, you know, where the media shows all this, like, violence on the news and it's not even the people protesting starting this violence, but that's still, like, the reputation that they got.

Jackie: 21:23

But what's wrong?

Jann: 21:24

and then it just turned out to not be that like, at the end, he just said, okay, like, I'm not going to be afraid of this. I'm just going to open the door and like, hear them out.

Jackie: 21:32

Yeah, but that's the thing.

Jann: 21:34

yeah, I think there's a lot of different

Jackie: 21:35

With the Q Change...

Jann: 21:38

fact that it wasn't

Jackie: 21:39

No, I was going to

Jann: 21:40

go ahead, mom.

Jackie: 21:40

Change, it's also about how you go about getting people to change. You can't force them. If they don't want to live like you're living, that's fine, leave them alone. But what they did is start doing things to force them to change, cutting their electricity, surrounding their buildings, all that kind of crazy stuff.

Joi: 22:00

Do you think, mom, would you still think that it's about gentrification if we said that the zombies was like, hitting up a suburban neighborhood, specifically?

Jackie: 22:10

Yeah. Well, see, that's the thing. It's not just justification. It's more about giving people the opportunity to make their own decision about what changes they want and how you go about it. They started, they started acting, you know, when it first came out, they were talking about the violence and everything, right? And then they proved that that probably wasn't what was going on. But they also didn't give them a choice. They went after them regardless. And like I said, they started escalating how they were getting to these people to make them change You'll get one have the one effective work the others, you know

Joi: 22:43

Well, my thing about it too, when you look at it that way, when you have one and then get the run to affect the others, do you think it's kind of like, you know, when you say like, okay, let's use the BLM movement? And you get a white person to actually agree and become an ally, that white person goes back to racist auntie and uncle and tell them about it and get them to agree, and keep moving it along like that. So I saw it more

Jackie: 23:09

But did

Joi: 23:10

you know?

Jackie: 23:10

did they cut off their food did they cut off the electricity to the until they agreed to do what they Wanted them to do. That's the thing

Jann: 23:18

Well, that could be symbolic though to other things. Like instead of like thinking about food and electricity, it could be like, okay, well, I'm not going to like have my grandchild subjected to this. So until you can change your mind, you can't

Jackie: 23:29

Yeah, but that's still a

Jann: 23:31

Like, I'm not going to have these beliefs in their head.

Joi: 23:33

like it's they're in the dark

Jackie: 23:35

Yeah.

Jann: 23:36

Yeah. So it's not necessarily literal like food and electricity, but yeah, it could be like, if you don't change, then you're left behind in more ways than one, you know,

Joi: 23:45

and even when people get cancelled too for still be like homophobic or Anything like that or racist.

Jackie: 23:52

mean, I get that, but that's what I'm saying. I don't, I don't think it's the whole thing about people don't want to change, but it's the way you feed change to them. You know?

Joi: 24:05

I understand but there's sometimes where it's like sure I would love for you to have a choice in this matter But I'm telling you here and now homophobia is not where is that and if you can't get it together You're gonna be in the dark because no one's gonna be around

Jann: 24:18

about it that way too, because it is the black community that this book is like talking to, like instead of thinking about it in the BLM, if you don't want to think about it that way, think about it as like you're like homophobic. Like grandmother, like some relative that's like stuck in the dark. Absolutely. The same thing applies. You're not talking to my child, like what if they turn out to be queer? And now you've like poisoned their mind and like give them an inferiority complex, you know? Like, yeah, like it could be

Jackie: 24:47

and that's true. I don't look at it that way, but um, that's true. It's just that my issue with the whole thing is that it was forcible change like that. And you know, I got a problem with somebody. And you guys do too. Telling y'all what to do. You don't tell me what to do. Ha ha ha. I'll make my own decisions.

Jann: 25:03

that's fair. But she did like, the girl did make her own decision and said, I'm not going to live like that and like ended

Jackie: 25:10

Yes, she did.

Jann: 25:11

Like she ended up shooting

Jackie: 25:12

exactly.

Jann: 25:13

yeah, You have a choice.

Joi: 25:14

And she doesn't necessarily have to kill herself when we're talking about it symbolically either. It's just like, fine. I don't have to know about my grandkids. I don't have to know what's going on either way. You know? So, yeah.

Jann: 25:24

Yeah, and I like that they named it Q change instead of like zombie attack or anything But honestly to somebody who's very set in their ways like they're toxic ways and to see like all this change Happening in the world and people like men wearing skirts was still like enrages the male alpha of podcasters, you know

Jackie: 25:45

Yeah,

Jann: 25:46

Like it can't feel like an attack I feel like sometimes Because everything that you thought you knew, everything that you thought was evil, everything you thought you shouldn't be, people are like, I'm not going to live that way. And I feel like, especially with people who are closeted, like, homosexuals or queer, like, closet queers, seeing people live their life, like, sometimes they are, like, hateful because they're resentful. So.

Joi: 26:09

You saw me change him in the mirror and you didn't say anything in the car, you know, like you didn't have an issue with it. So it's kind of like, oh, you saw me with the guy before you didn't have an issue, but now we're out here in public or in a group of people who's against it. And now you're saying, oh, you know, I didn't see that or I didn't know what I saw or you know what I mean? So it's kind of like that, the more you think about it, which is. This is one of my favorites too, obviously, it's a good story, and there's different ways to interpret it, so

Jackie: 26:36

And we read the story after we saw they cloned Tyrone. So that's the first thing I thought was, Are they talking about gentrification here? You know? So, that's the first thing I thought. So, and, well, that's why I said my issue, my whole thing was like, They didn't want them. They left them over there in the ghetto, left them alone and everything. And then all of a sudden, they're bothering them, don't leave them alone, make them, force them to take what they want. That's like coming in and building new schools and putting up high rises. And then next thing you know, you're out of your home because you can't afford the taxes, you know? So it's like force. It's like with that gloved hand, you know?

Jann: 27:27

I feel like I would agree with, like, it could have been that, but there are so many things that, like,

Jackie: 27:32

Mm hmm.

Jann: 27:33

that it's not, like, the fact that they were the last to be taken over, you know, like, alone, kind of, um, contradicts that, I guess, because everybody

Jackie: 27:44

Yeah, but.

Joi: 27:45

And not only that, it's

Jann: 27:46

then they were the last

Joi: 27:48

they would help them transform, you know? They're like, look, it's going to be a hard transformation, but we're

Jann: 27:52

like, they're getting kicked out. is more. So they're being, like, brought into the full rather than being displaced, which I feel like is what gentrification is about,

Joi: 28:01

And even when there was,

Jann: 28:02

taking this and you can find something else, even though there's nothing else out there for them to

Jackie: 28:06

Mm hmm. Mm

Joi: 28:07

And when they were like, too, like, hey, we just got to scratch you behind your ear or something, which could be like, hey, it's going to be like maybe a couple of things you won't like, but you know, overall. you know it's gonna help the change, you know.

Jackie: 28:19

Good.

Jann: 28:20

And it reminded me of, I'm just going to go ahead and say because we're talking about this for a long time, but I think it's okay because this one's also my favorite, so it's taking my time too. Um, I just want to say it reminded me of a book that I read called The Host. Um, have you guys read that? I

Jackie: 28:36

saw the movie, too.

Jann: 28:37

Um, it's about a,

Jackie: 28:39

And I saw

Jann: 28:40

what'd you say mom? I didn't like the movie as much, but I feel like that's always how it is. Um, hold on. Oh, I didn't know that. So the host is actually by Stephanie Meyer, um, or Meyer, whatever, who made Twilight. Um, and I think actually now that I know that I think I read it in high school, right after I read Twilight. Um,

Jackie: 29:08

They were.

Jann: 29:09

I was one of those girls in high school. I'm just going to leave it at that.

Joi: 29:12

I was too!

Jackie: 29:13

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Jann: 29:16

Yes, obviously.

Jackie: 29:19

Mm hmm. Mm

Jann: 29:20

Um, but yeah, the host was about an alien takeover where they were implanting like the aliens were implanting themselves into the human body and they would just pretend like they were human. Um. Until they took over. Right. And so they took over most of the world. And then like, once they like caught on, there was like, well, we're here now. What are you going to do? And all the aliens are, all the humans are like in hiding. But the thing was, they were like a hive mind in themselves kind of, uh, where they just didn't break rules. Like society was overall better without humans there. And, or they were repairing earth and everything. Um, and I'm not going to give any spoilers about like anything else, but, um, that's what it reminded

Jackie: 30:06

Yeah, it was sort of like that.

Jann: 30:07

I kind of want to reread that book.

Joi: 30:09

Well dang! I'm kind of like sad that both you guys have the same one that you was your favorite because I want to talk about more

Jackie: 30:16

uh

Joi: 30:17

You guys want to hear my second favorite that I was going like back and forth about?

Jann: 30:23

I want to hear the least favorites first because I thought your least favorite was Purse. We can talk about all of them. But that's because it was my least favorite. Like,

Joi: 30:33

Really?

Jann: 30:34

I feel like it was too short to actually get to the point I think she was trying to make and I feel like it was too morbid to actually warrant the story or the point that she was trying to make. And I don't know. Like, it just felt like, it just felt gross to me.

Jackie: 30:53

It was. It was, it seems like it was just pointless. It was sad, yeah, but what's the point?

Jann: 31:00

and it was short enough that I can like do a quick synopsis. It was about a woman on a train and, um, she felt like Scared and afraid and she was grabbing onto her purse the whole time and she was talking about how this big guy was on the train. I like our subway, I guess opposite her and she was worried that he was going to take her purse because everything that she had that was like important to her was in the purse. And she was talking about how she hadn't deposited her check because she was afraid to leave it at home or her paycheck. So it was in her purse. And she, like, made it a point to say, like, it didn't even occur to her that he might want something, like, other than her purse. And I was like, gross. Um,

Jackie: 31:42

hmm. Mm

Jann: 31:43

but, uh, yeah, they made this whole point. And then at the, um, of that, like, pointed it out. And then at the end, it turns out that she was having an abortion and her fetus was in the purse. And she was, I guess, trying to get to a hospital. That was how I interpreted the story. Um, and she ended up passing out and the guy did come up to her and it was turned out he was concerned and was trying to help her the whole time because she looked like she was going to pass out and there was like blood everywhere. Um, it was just so many things I didn't like about it and I don't really think I understand the point that she was

Jackie: 32:18

okay. It, it wasn't an abortion, it was a miscarriage.

Jann: 32:23

that's what I that's what I meant to say. Yeah, miscarriage. Um, but it seemed like it kind of talked about stereotypes in a way, because this guy who she assumed was going to attack her was trying to help her. Um. But I'm just not exactly sure like the overall point of the story and I've been thinking about it and I don't think it has come to me yet, so I'm interested to like, know your guys points of view because one of the reasons I didn't like it is because I felt like it was just so traumatic and it seemed like it had no payoff because I didn't

Jackie: 32:54

that's what exactly what I said, what's the point of it? There was no point. Mm hmm.

Joi: 32:58

So, I actually like this story, and here's why, the way, like a lot of these stories like if you would have asked me a week ago, I probably wouldn't have liked all these stories because I haven't had a chance to think about them. But with this story, I'm thinking more of like, so obviously there's stereotypes, but she's also like as a black woman, you know, there's stereotypes. And black women have stereotypes too about other people, like she's like, of course she's going to get raped by this big guy on the train. Um, and I kind of looking at it as, and I didn't look at it as a miscarriage either, I looked at it as one of the things like, she had a baby, like probably like in a restroom or something, but it was a baby that no one knew about. And being that the law is being passed right now, you know, she's trying to get rid of it. You know, but she couldn't make herself get rid of it. So she carried it in her purse. And so I'm thinking about all the things that women have to struggle with, even just to like get through the day. She said she had everything that she was afraid to leave her money at home. She got this fucking fetus in her, in her purse. She's afraid she's going to get raped. And she just had a baby like in a restroom or something that she doesn't want, but couldn't get rid of before. I just feel like it was a lot of the society's issues that this girl was having. Um, At the end of the day, like, people came to help her, even though she was afraid most of the time being on her own. You know what I mean?

Jann: 34:19

and that's, that's like what I don't Because, okay, I get everything you said, and I actually like the story more from that view, but they like made it a point to say like it didn't even occur to her that he might like want something else, as in the rape, like he, she thought he was just going to mug her and she wanted everything that was important to her was in this bag. So obviously the fetus was important. But she just kept talking about her paychecks. I don't know. It was a little bit convoluted, but I feel like if she wrote it in a way where it like made more of that point that you're trying to make, I would like it and I don't think like at the end, like a lot of people did try to help her. It was just that 1 guy and everyone else is just sitting around looking at her, which also feeds into that story of like, women go through so much and they like, hardly have any help, you know?

Joi: 35:06

What I would have liked a little bit more is at the end, it was another black woman helping her. You

Jackie: 35:12

But that's always the norm. It's always gonna be another black woman, hoping it's always the

Joi: 35:16

but that's what I'm

Jackie: 35:17

up over men.

Joi: 35:19

but that's what I'm saying. I would like that because she's having all these issues of as far as having like the money and the baby and like she's bleeding and she's afraid and she's by herself. And the only other ones you look out for for sure was the other black woman that was helping her. You know.

Jackie: 35:36

Yeah, that makes sense. But, but,

Joi: 35:40

black guy

Jackie: 35:40

like you said, I just didn't get the point of it. It just seemed sad, you know, at first. But now that I got

Joi: 35:47

was a little gratuitous.

Jackie: 35:48

I can, if it was that take, yeah, that's, that's better.

Joi: 35:53

I actually like audibly gasped when I read that part, I was like, oh, a baby?

Jackie: 35:58

ha ha, you would.

Jann: 36:02

yeah, I did read it as a miscarriage though, because, um, she said that everything that was important to her ends in the bag. Which is so heartbreaking that she had to like, get on, put her fetus in a, in a purse and then get on the subway. But when you're thinking about all the stuff that you go through, including like, poverty, like,

Joi: 36:20

You can't afford an ambulance.

Jackie: 36:22

You can't afford medical.

Jann: 36:24

a

Jackie: 36:25

And that's the thing, I've, a lot of the stories I felt like touched on that. It's like the very, very dregs of society that nobody care about. And they don't give a crap. You see nobody try to help her, they don't give a crap. Because you're poor and all that, you don't matter.

Joi: 36:42

And you know, even when you say it was a miscarriage, I feel like people give abortions to even when they want the baby to. It could have just been like economical because she was just like, my money, I'm afraid to leave my money at home. Cause I don't trust banks and I don't trust my apartment, you know,

Jackie: 36:55

No, it could have

Jann: 36:56

could have been. but why carry the fetus with you if

Jackie: 36:58

True. You don't. They would have.

Joi: 37:00

no, I'm saying, what did I say? Abortion, I meant like the baby, like, you know, having the baby and then like having

Jackie: 37:06

Yeah. I just felt like,

Joi: 37:08

you know,

Jackie: 37:09

in shock too, carrying it around. I felt like she was really in shock. Yeah. Yeah.

Jann: 37:14

sure. Yeah, that was a lot of shock. She was overwhelmed and stressed, um, which understandable.

Joi: 37:20

it's still bleeding thinking about everything else. But the fact that you're bleeding, no one realizes that's definitely shocked to,

Jackie: 37:27

And that's just, like Joy said, that just shows you what, People put up with when you're they you're considered not important in society, you know, that wouldn't happen to anyone else Like

Joi: 37:38

even just overlooked, you know,

Jackie: 37:40

that. yeah, you can reach out and get help

Joi: 37:44

Mm hmm.

Jann: 37:45

what since we're talking about this story and is like traumatic I'm just gonna go ahead and say like this is not the horror that I enjoy reading And I think that's why I kind of rated it a low like even though I like the story I think she it was like really beautifully written this type of horror is like the grotesque and just like Makes your skin crawl a little bit like it's not my

Jackie: 38:14

it didn't fit it didn't fit in the book it didn't fit in the book with the rest of the stories

Jann: 38:19

No, I just mean like the all the short stories in general This is not my favorite like

Jackie: 38:23

well see mine is, and I don't consider that horror. It's like sad and all that, but it didn't fit with the rest of the stories to me.

Joi: 38:35

I think it fit very well with the rest of the stories and it wasn't my favorite kind of it's not my favorite kind Of horror either like body horror and stuff like that. I like paranormal stuff, you know, I like ghosts even demons But um, this is something different and and honestly it put me In a bad mood almost like I had to take a break to read between some stories because like they were so sad But I could see where she was going with them and I could see what the why this book was written And like it's one of those things like it just sits with you like put it down Think about it for a while like a couple of days couple weeks and it's like yeah, I like the book I'm gonna recommend it, you know, so

Jann: 39:13

Yeah, so just to clarify my point, I'm not talking about this story in general, like the whole book was not really my idea of like what I, like horror. Okay, I just wanted to make sure I got that across and I think Joy, I'm surprised that you did like it because when I say like, it's not my thing or horror, like, because again, it's not supernatural. Like, this is just everyday life is freaking horrific. And you're reminding me of that and I'm not reading for that, you know,

Jackie: 39:43

that's true.

Jann: 39:44

and I get why it's important. I do, but like there's, this really isn't something I would recommend to someone without like wanting to ruin their

Jackie: 39:53

That's what,

Jann: 39:54

you know?

Jackie: 39:54

Joy was making the point because me and her watch these movies all the time and that is not our favorite kind of horror. We like supernatural, we like paranormal, you know?

Joi: 40:04

that's the thing and I'm a big advocate for like, I go read books to escape. This is kind of like a bummer. But like I said, it's like a slow burn over. It's like you have to think about it later. Like, oh, this could also mean this. You know, like I kind of like

Jackie: 40:18

So you don't want to be educated, you want to be entertained. So, let me say this. It seems like we all have a story that, one of the stories that we had issues, problems trying to get through. Mine was dealing with the rat one. Joy was this one. Which one was yours, Jan?

Joi: 40:36

this one wasn't mine.

Jann: 40:37

No, this one was mine.

Joi: 40:39

Mine, that I really had an issue with, and I really had to take time, was, um, what was it? It was Chocolate Park. That one broke my heart over and over again, and it was so horrible, and every time I turned around, the

Jann: 40:59

I just blocked it out of my mind.

Joi: 41:01

SCRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP. It was awful. Well, Jay, can you, uh, recap it? Cause I don't want to. It's horrible.

Jann: 41:13

I already recapped. You know what? I'm gonna do it too and you never gonna get your recap satisfied.

Jackie: 41:18

MADELINE LAUGHS

Jann: 41:21

So this one started with a sister saying that she's going out and looking for her sister because she hasn't been home in days and she eventually finds her sister in the park. Um, in the middle of like a sexual act with some dude on the ground behind a bench and she called out to her and was like, you need to take your tail home. Like, this is no, and the guy, like, gets aggressive. Like, no, I paid for her. Like, I paid for this, like, either this is going to happen or you're going to like, come and take her place or y'all need to give me money. So she's obviously like prostituting herself. And she eventually pulls a gun on the guy to get her sister from Underrealm and they like, leave. Um, and they go home and it turns out, uh, they have a younger sister and the whole time that she's going home. She's like, upset because her sister is like, a recovering addict. And she's obviously back on drugs and like, prostituting herself to like, get the drugs. she's talking about this is how mom died, like she was stressed out about trying to find her sister and out here walking the streets and trying to find her all the time. Um, she obviously blames her sister for her mom's death. We don't know if that's really what happened. There's no reason to not believe it, I guess. And they get home and you find out they have another third sister, a younger sister. And she's like, okay, you're home. Chill out, like, with all this nonsense. Like, go to bed. We'll talk about it in the morning. And, you know. It comes to a point where they talk about, uh, older women and then they talk about a lot of things. Um, they talk about an older woman in the neighborhood who the younger sister would go and like help sometimes and everybody avoids this woman because they think she's a witch. Um, but the sister who went to go find the older sister, the older sister is the one prostituting herself. The one who's keeping it all together is the middle child, of course, um,

Jackie: 43:16

course,

Jann: 43:17

but she gets a call from this woman and says, your sister's in trouble. Your younger sister, you need to get here now. And it turns out the guy who she pulled the gun on, who the sister was like within the park, found her younger sister and pretty much took her, kidnapped her, took her to his place with a bunch of his friends and they all like beat and raped her. Horrifying. Um,

Jackie: 43:42

too. You forgot that.

Jann: 43:44

because of the older sisters.

Jackie: 43:45

he was the drug dealer too. Remember? Yeah.

Jann: 43:49

was a drug dealer. Yeah, so she like, prostituted herself out to get drugs or like, pay back her debt. Um, So, she went and picked her sister up and the sister's like, we just need to leave. Like, let's leave her. Like, she's pulling us down. She's like, black and blue from all the, like, the beating. And she was like, okay, we're gonna leave. Um, And the next scene she's out looking for the older sister again, trying to like say, okay, I'm going to give her one more chance. And she says, like, you need to stop doing this when she finds her and the older sister pretty much says, like, I can't stop. I'm so sorry that this happened to her. But like, you guys should just leave and she's trying to convince her. And then they hear a gunshot. She looks down her older sister shot and she looks behind her and it's her younger sister that has the gun that actually shot the older sister. So they're crying and they leave, that's the last we hear from them, um, and then it goes back, I think it's a story where it goes back to the older woman or like the, the, um, yeah, the witch, it turns out the drug dealer who raped the younger sister actually killed her son, and she like has a voodoo doll and like performs voodoo on him and actually kills him, and I think she kills somebody else, um, but that's pretty much the story. Like she's like getting revenge on everybody and it takes so much of her energy that she dies too. There it is.

Jackie: 45:14

That was a good story.

Jann: 45:15

How was That

Jackie: 45:16

a good story. Was sad. What?

Jann: 45:20

Okay, so that was Joy's fav least favorite story. So I think it's interesting that you say it's a good one, but go ahead and tell me what I forgot, Joy.

Joi: 45:27

forgot about the neighbor story when the witch, her, his, her neighbors were always fighting.

Jackie: 45:34

Mm.

Jann: 45:34

can go ahead and tell that. That was a detail I found irrelevant, but go ahead.

Joi: 45:39

That's irrelevant,

Jann: 45:40

No, no, go ahead. Tell them.

Joi: 45:41

oh, well, basically, um, the witch's neighbor, they're always fighting, a man, a woman, and the babies over there. She's just tired of them fighting and she says like, what you guys shut up or do something or something like that. Like I'm tired of hearing it and it makes it seem like the husband's like, I'm so tired. I've been working. I didn't want to be with this woman. She just got pregnant and now we're here, we're stuck. And it seemed like he was going to kill her and the baby. But at the end he kills himself in front of them pretty much. And that's the story. It's just like another level of trauma in the story that, you know, traumatized me.

Jann: 46:18

What's one thing that's interesting about that is that she said this like, okay, shut up already and then the husband killed himself and it kind of ties back into, um,

Joi: 46:28

Being a witch.

Jann: 46:28

I mean, look at the,

Jackie: 46:30

Vanna

Jann: 46:31

no, it ties back into I make people do bad things where the younger girl was able to, like, convince people to kill themselves and never really got into, like, how I feel like it ties into that story. Like, she had some ideas running around in her head. Um. Yeah. And she used them in multiple stories because the witch, obviously, like, the way it's written implies that she influenced him to do that so that she can

Jackie: 46:56

Right. Right.

Jann: 46:58

you know, so I like that. She did that. Like, a lot of the stories kind of tied into each other. Like, some of the powers that we saw 1 story came in another like, so is this like a power that a lot of like, Um, skin folk have, or is this just like, like in the same universe, um, or is this like completely separate? Um, it's interesting, like to kind of think those things through.

Joi: 47:21

I definitely felt a connection between some of the stories, even though it wasn't necessarily said. But I thought it was, at first, I thought it was like some people coming through, um, with other stories, you know? But it wasn't necessarily, I would go back and check names and stuff like that, because some of the names were similar. I was like, well, why would you do that on, like, did you do that on purpose, you know? So, like, I think it was, um... The son's name was the same as someone else's, a different story, and another one named like, Etta something, Etta Mae. She was in another, that name was in another story. I was like, that can't be the same person, but why is it the same, like, almost the same name? You know, like, hey, do you think back to it? And that would be a really cool trick if she's like, you know, it's not the same person, but I want you to think back specifically to this story and think about what was going on in that story and, you know,

Jackie: 48:12

Oh, I didn't think about it like that. That's a good idea, Julie. I didn't really think about it like

Joi: 48:18

hmm.

Jann: 48:18

Yeah.

Jackie: 48:19

I was thinking it more, I was thinking more so like, you know, when people get desperate and they have nowhere to turn and they manifest powers to help themselves. That's what I was thinking. Like all these people were desperate

Jann: 48:33

Oh, that's

Jackie: 48:33

and they started manifesting these powers. This is the only thing they had, you know. To try to help or help themselves, help someone else or themselves. And like, the sister,

Jann: 48:46

So, like, ma magic manifesta magic

Jackie: 48:47

yeah.

Jann: 48:50

that manifested due to

Jackie: 48:51

and just think about the sister. She ended up killing the older sister because they were all gonna die. They had to like, we gonna have to just, we have to cut, we gotta cut ties. Remember the younger sister was the one that was doing really well in school. She was the smartest one. She was the hope for all of them. This is what the middle sister was going through to try to make sure that she ends up someplace good. And she just couldn't bring herself to take that step away from the older sister. So, the younger sister ended up doing it. You know, so.

Joi: 49:30

and you know, that's the thing that was so tragic to me because like it was their ages So the little sister was only like 14 And the middle sister was like 17 18 and the oldest sister was like 19 20 21

Jackie: 49:42

Right. They weren't

Joi: 49:43

i'm like they're all so very young And the thing about like yeah, they had to cut the ties with the sister because she already said she can't stop So they were going to get linked back to that place no matter how far they ran because he was going to follow them anyway if she still owed money, basically. And he was like, I'll kill all y'all. I don't give a shit. Like, so something had

Jackie: 50:03

drugs from him. That's what

Joi: 50:05

yeah, she stole drugs and she couldn't afford to pay it back. That's the whole thing. But then she was addicted. So she would, she would probably end up back there, honestly. And being that they're Their history with the way they lost their mom from the stress of the oldest sister and then the middle sister is working like a call center job trying to make ends meet because that's all they can rely on and it's even sad because the younger sister who was doing well, she couldn't even bring herself to be like, Oh, I can do, I could be something great. I could be a doctor. She couldn't even say that to herself, you know? So, and I think with the witch, with the little sister being so close to the witch too, um, it was kind of like the witch going like, they have to get out of here and I gotta make sure that they get out of here and thrive. So I feel like that could also be like the witch kind of like, I hate to make you kill your sister, but she killed her. And then she also killed the guy just to be sure that they got out of

Jackie: 51:00

and that's the thing, she could have done it any time after he killed her son, but it happened after all that happened to them, and I think it was more so she was like, enough is enough, I'm putting a stop to all of this, you know?

Joi: 51:13

Like one is too many, but two is too much. Yeah.

Jackie: 51:17

just, he's escalating, he's not getting better, and I'm not gonna let him harm anybody else.

Joi: 51:23

Honestly, the son for me would have been enough. But I don't think she was in a position to kill herself on top of, um, her son dying and this guy as well. And she wasn't sure either, but I think this kind of like put the final, like, nail in the coffin too. It's just like, oh, it was his ass, you know?

Jackie: 51:41

Well, she knew it was him the whole time. And like I said, I

Joi: 51:45

she did,

Jackie: 51:45

decision after she saw what was going on and how he had harmed them. Like, I can't, I can't anymore. I, he's got to go.

Joi: 51:54

you know.

Jann: 51:55

Yeah.

Joi: 51:56

I think it was like Poetic Justice 2's that they came back as zombies, Chocolate and the, the son, to kill him. And I feel like it wasn't like harsh enough the way he died, so. I feel like he needs to die a

Jann: 52:08

I agree. Like, didn't it seem like he wasn't that scared?

Jackie: 52:12

Yeah.

Jann: 52:13

Like, I thought that was insane. Like, um, he, he said he was surprised, but like, he was backing up slowly like, this

Jackie: 52:21

Yeah.

Jann: 52:23

one guy is almost completely decomposed. Why aren't you more scared?

Joi: 52:27

Right. he was talking about, like, how he busted his teeth in and, like, broke his bones and, you know, the way he treated Chocolate when she was alive, much less her baby sister that had nothing to do with it. He needed to suffer a lot more. That would

Jackie: 52:41

Yeah. I said that too. He went out too fast. Like, no. No.

Joi: 52:45

hmm.

Jackie: 52:46

He deserved a lot more.

Jann: 52:48

Yeah.

Joi: 52:49

I feel like Facilier from, um, Princes and the Frog was more afraid than he was. Ha ha ha ha ha ha! So...

Jackie: 53:00

Yeah. That was sad. That was another sad one, but.

Joi: 53:05

yeah, that was tough. Even listening to, like, the, the story again, like the little summary Jan did, I was like, Ugh, that poor baby, you know?

Jann: 53:15

Yeah,

Joi: 53:16

But they were just doing history all over again. She was turning into the mom. The sister was still doing the same shit, you know? So, she was affecting too many people. She had to go.

Jackie: 53:26

Yeah.

Joi: 53:27

So yeah, that was my least favorite story. Not because it wasn't real well written, but because it was like horrifying in the worst way.

Jackie: 53:37

Yeah. Well, my, my, I didn't like the room where Ben disappeared either. I didn't like that story.

Joi: 53:44

Me either! That was the one I was like,

Jackie: 53:46

huh?

Joi: 53:47

That was the one I did not like. It felt like it was cut off. I didn't, I didn't quite

Jackie: 53:53

like, yeah, like she bent the middle so you didn't get it really. Like, well what happened? We don't understand what's going on. Why is this going on?

Jann: 54:03

So do you think they took Ben to the future?

Joi: 54:07

maybe?

Jann: 54:08

Joy, I'm gonna make you recap this one. Unless, Mom, you want to volunteer for her.

Joi: 54:15

Volunteer's Tribute!

Jann: 54:17

you. Nope, nope, she ain't saving you. Recap that story. For the fume.

Joi: 54:22

So, basically this story is about this white guy. He's going back home, I think for Funeral he hasn't been back for he hasn't back for a while. And basically he's like a He's this family's well off, you know Yeah,

Jann: 54:42

Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. I just realized it wasn't a funeral. It was just because they said the mom wasn't doing well.

Joi: 54:47

okay.

Jann: 54:48

Because remember, he didn't come back for his dad's fume,

Joi: 54:51

that's right. Yeah, so he's just heading back home check on his mom And basically they have This old housekeeper, and she's a black woman. She's older and She's just like hey your mom's not doing well. You know she's talking to herself, and she's like going on to this long like Kind of like spacing out for really long periods of time so I don't think she's gonna live for much longer or whatever and He stays For a couple of nights and he hears like weird stuff going on in the hallways and behind a certain door Almost like you think there's a ghost in the house, right?

Jackie: 55:29

Mm

Joi: 55:30

So he goes into this room and he hears his mom She's talking talking talking and he opens this room's door and she's just sitting there spaced out again and nothing's different So he's like what the hell is going on? And basically, um, he flashed back to, um, back in the past, like when he was a kid, and there was the housekeeper, the same housekeeper, she had a son named Ben, and Ben was on the run, it reminded me of, um, Emmett Till, and there was like White people after him for doing something, you know, they blame him for something. They want to lynch him and basically the housekeeper the mom and then the housekeeper the You know the boys mom Ben and then his mom and his dad and they're white by the way So she's working for a white family They're like, oh no, we haven't seen him. Um, and the dad takes Ben up to a room upstairs to hide him. That's what you're thinking. And basically, the white man that was after Ben, they're like, okay, little white boy, have you seen him? Like, you're on our side, you know? You white, we white, we white together. And uh, basically, he was like, well, I was young. I was always told not to lie. And I told them, yeah, I saw him, he's upstairs.

Jackie: 56:41

Yep.

Joi: 56:42

So, um, they all went upstairs, they rampaged through, they couldn't find him. And basically, um, Ben disappeared in that room where he's been hearing, like, paranormal shit happening. And it's like a time warp or something in there, so. And that's the end of the story. Like, that's just

Jackie: 56:58

Yeah! They never

Jann: 57:00

And he decided to stay there.

Joi: 57:01

Yeah.

Jackie: 57:02

That's when I was like, what? Hahaha! Yeah,

Joi: 57:07

I was like, oh shit.

Jackie: 57:08

um, I figure it was multidimensional portal or something in the room, but it's never really explained any clearer, you know, what happened to Ben. All we know is that they still haven't, he, he hears echoes of Ben and his mom and talking and all and visiting and it's just not explained well.

Jann: 57:33

What I didn't understand about the story, I don't really feel one way or another about this one. I don't think it was the best one. I don't think it's the best

Joi: 57:40

No.

Jackie: 57:40

Mm hmm.

Jann: 57:42

come back for his dad's funeral as if like, um, they didn't have a good relationship. And then he went back and talked about how this housekeeper, like the black woman was like a second mom to him. And I'm like, okay, so it sounds like you grew up in a racist place. You love your housekeeper slash nanny. You don't have a relationship with your dad. Was your dad racist? And then it turns out the dad was the one that saved Ben. And I'm like, why did you not come back for the feet? Like, I feel like there was a lot of details in the story that. I don't want to say irrelevant, but I'm not like, it seems like the point of them kind of contradicted the actual story.

Joi: 58:21

But this is another one, even though it's not my favorite, I feel like if you think about it, like, could it be that the dad held a grudge that whole time? The dad held a grudge with him telling the truth, you know, to these people. And it, like, maybe he did just want to hide Ben, but he knew if he put him in that room and did something, whatever he did, cast a spell or something, he would be gone forever. We would never see Ben again, you know, and so he probably pissed off about

Jann: 58:46

of that

Jackie: 58:46

Or,

Joi: 58:47

there wasn't, but it was half

Jackie: 58:48

yeah, that's the thing. It's half a story.

Joi: 58:51

So. And that's the thing too with the, with the mother of Ben being okay and going like, well, there's nothing we can really do. At least I know he didn't end up like our Emmett Till in our dimension, you know, like we know that he's away from this. And so she just raised the other one like she would raise her son. That's why she forgave him. And he was a kid too anyway. So. I, I guess.

Jackie: 59:12

take on it. I thought more so that he didn't come back for the fathers because he couldn't face his father because he couldn't face up to what he did. I think he still felt guilty about what

Joi: 59:21

That too.

Jackie: 59:22

he was just avoiding the

Jann: 59:24

I can buy that one a little bit

Jackie: 59:25

the, you know, the spin. I...

Jann: 59:28

But I mean, you don't have to face up to your dad when he's

Jackie: 59:31

But I'm just saying, he still had that...

Joi: 59:33

Yeah, but people kind of like confess things too at funerals. Like, I remember what we did 15 years ago. I'm sorry. Or,

Jackie: 59:39

Well, it's not so much

Jann: 59:41

So why didn't he go to the funeral?

Jackie: 59:43

I think he's just ashamed that he didn't want to go back there. Period.

Joi: 59:47

Yeah.

Jann: 59:49

Okay, I'll let y'all have it

Joi: 59:54

Like I said, it was

Jann: 59:55

All right. So let's let's talk about um, joy You want to talk about one more that you liked and then we'll wrap it.

Joi: 1:00:03

Um, so of course, It was the, I'm going to get the title right. The Teachings and Redemption of Miss Fannie Lou

Jackie: 1:00:13

I knew it. I knew it.

Jann: 1:00:16

Joy, tell us why you like that story.

Joi: 1:00:18

So, I like this story because it has the magic, it has the blackness, it doesn't have the racism that we're so used to seeing in this time period. was just one of those things where it's kind of like, I'm just like, it was nice to kind of like, be in this time period and see like the magical like, kind of like um, we read Legendborn

Jackie: 1:00:44

Mm hmm.

Joi: 1:00:45

recently so it kind of like reminds me of Rootmagic. That's

Jackie: 1:00:48

ha, ha,

Joi: 1:00:49

a lot more Rootmagic in my life.

Jackie: 1:00:50

exactly it. Yeah.

Jann: 1:00:52

Alright, so, oh yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, since you brought this one up Joy, you know you definitely have to recap it.

Joi: 1:01:00

it's so long.

Jann: 1:01:03

So, yeah, that's a good point to before you get started, like, let's point out that this 1 is the last book story of the book and it is like, more of a novella than a short story. So, all the 1st, 10 stories were pretty short, short stories. And then this 1 was like, 3 of those stories combined. Um, so give us the highlights if nothing else.

Joi: 1:01:22

Okay, so we start off with Fanny Lou Mason. She's a witch. Um, and she moves from city to city, um, pretty much teaching other, um, witches that they, they have powers and how to use them. And we come to her getting almost lynched by a town, mind you, it's not white people, it's all black people that we're dealing with, all black people. But um, they're like, it's like a witch hunt. And she's like, Oh, yeah, like it's been raining. I don't know what to do. And the townspeople are blaming her. So they're at her house in a hill. And basically while they're all yelling and screaming at her, they watch the city center get washed away from the storm. And they're like, holy shit, like our city center. We would have all been there right now if we weren't here trying to lynch you, girl. And she was like, Oh, thank God, you know, this is what I wanted, you know, to save you guys. And then she realizes they're like, like poor kids that she couldn't save. They were in the city center because. The parents didn't want them there to see what they were going to do to this witch and she felt bad Basically, so we come back to her going to a new city and she meets these two twin girls who have powers and they have the power to Kind of help souls move to beyond like kind of a go to heaven or what have you right? And um, she's watching them grow and she's kind of like, biding her time to make sure that everything's like, they're ready to do it. Because she can't scare them into it because of the people that they live with and what have you. So in the meantime, meantime, she's just helping people like, with their babies, like as a midwife pretty much. Yeah, so pretty much they the climax of the story is her telling the girls and she's like training them to Use their powers and once again, she's getting lynched Because she's a witch and the girls try to save her one of the girls gets struck with rock She's about to die and she brings the girl back, but she dies in the process of doing like Fanny Lou dies in the process of bringing her back, which kind of was just like the fallen redemption of her. So yeah, that's basically the highlights

Jackie: 1:03:39

missed the main thing that, the thing that Fanny does and was teaching people is to go help all these slaves, these runaway slaves who got killed brutally and stuff, find their way to the light so they're not on Earth suffering still. The souls.

Joi: 1:03:55

Well, I said, I said she helps souls move on to the great beyond

Jackie: 1:03:59

it was from slavery. You know, all these people who were murdered brutally, like I said, running away, trying to make it to freedom. And that's the

Joi: 1:04:07

That's true. I'm guessing like the area that they were in, there was like the souls that were stuck in this forest

Jackie: 1:04:14

Trying to get

Joi: 1:04:15

they were on the Underground Railroad. They got, they got, you know, constantly running, so they helped them. But I'm just saying, like, period. Like, they can move souls on, so.

Jackie: 1:04:25

the main point of the souls.

Jann: 1:04:27

can I point something out?

Joi: 1:04:29

Yeah.

Jann: 1:04:31

Um, I think it's interesting, like, again, these are short stories or novellas, so your interpretation is not wrong, but I just interpreted that differently, um, like, yes, they were definitely helping, like, the souls of slaves move on, um, and it seemed like a lot of them, like, really violent scenes were, like, slave, like, trackers were, like, riding these people down and murdering them, um, But I didn't see that as their main ability. Like it seemed like their power was all encompassing and they were just, this was their purpose because they were in this area where there's so many souls trapped, you know? And I got that impression because the first time she saw the two little girls. They were happened upon a woman who was pregnant who was having a difficult pregnancy and like touched her and they kind of Exasperated her pregnancy where she had all these worms inside of her and I don't think she was really like knit wifing around town Like to pass time I think that woman got so bad because the twins touched her And their power like did something to the baby or at least it like put worms in her like exasperated a parasite She had and it was struggling Or the baby was struggling to survive. Um, so Fannie Mae helped her because she was struggling and was able to save the baby. But from that, she said, like, okay, I need to help these girls. Not only because they need to, like, move on to their, like, do their purpose. But because their power is unchecked right now. And they're hurting people without realizing it. So that was her second point. Like, she had, like, when she came to town. Um, she went to town to town, but not necessarily like to just to help to new witches. She just felt a calling and she didn't know what it was she was there for until she was there. And a lot of that was helping new witches like figure out what their power was and what their purpose was. Um, but when she came, one of the things she said, which made me nervous, I don't know. Um, she said, I don't know if I need to help these girls or help the town from these girls. And I was like, you better not hurt these little girls.

Jackie: 1:06:33

because think about it.

Jann: 1:06:35

And one thing that I really liked about this story was that it has so much in it, including colorism because they said these two little twin girls, one, they looked like identical except one was very dark and one was very light. And the dark skinned girl would, um, be harassed pretty much. Like there was one little like,

Jackie: 1:06:57

Boy.

Jann: 1:06:59

snot nose kid that would go up to her and say, how come you're not pretty like your sister? How come she's so pretty and you're so ugly because she was dark skin or there was the one teacher that they had who favored the light skin sister and would like, pretend like the dark skin sister didn't exist. And it's because the teacher was also light skinned and was like, well, you're going to do well. You just trust me. You're going to go far in life. Um, so that was a huge part of it.

Joi: 1:07:25

I thought it was interesting that, yeah, she was the lighter one, like one of the, you know, the lighter one, she was always getting the breaks and everything, people would say she was pretty, but she was always the one that got in trouble because she was the older sister with the parents, so when the little one, the darker sister, she would get hurt or something, the older one would get in trouble, I'm like, and I kept checking their names, like I wanted to make sure to see if the parents played into the colorism or not, and I was like, they don't. The little sister kept I mean, the oldest sister could get her ass beat. HAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Jann: 1:07:57

said, too, though, the older sister was bigger than the younger sister, because the younger sister, like, had a, um, you know, she had complications delivering the younger sister, so she wasn't as healthy. So that made sense to me, too. But yeah, the parents, like, did not feed into that colorism at all. Um, and before, I wanted to point out one more thing that I loved about this story. And it's that it had the type of horror that I normally, like, am terrified of. And it was only a small snippet with that house where they would throw the shoes. It was just shoes in a closet up in the front of the house. And they said their younger or their older siblings showed them this. Like, it was an abandoned house. They go to the house and there was a bunch of shoes in the front closet and they would take the shoes and throw it up the stairs and then something would throw them back. Like it wasn't like throwing it and then it bounces back. Like it will be a couple of seconds and something would throw it back and then eventually it would get pissed off and chase them out of the house.

Jackie: 1:08:55

Well, here's my thing on that.

Jann: 1:08:57

So that's,

Jackie: 1:08:59

out about that whole thing, too, what I thought about. So, I think she came to help them because, like you said, they were doing stuff because they didn't understand they were magical. And I think they were on the cusp of being evil and playing with these evil ghosts like that and everything. And, like you said, she didn't know if she had to save the town from them or them, you know? And I think that's why they were on the cusp because they didn't know. They were doing these things. I think they were cursing like they cursed that lady's baby and didn't realize it They didn't mean to do it. But that like I said, they were on the cusp of maybe good and evil And she came to train them

Jann: 1:09:34

hmm. That could have been it.

Joi: 1:09:36

You know what's

Jann: 1:09:37

Yeah, that could have been it too.

Joi: 1:09:38

I had no idea that they put that worm inside of that lady. I thought they were just

Jackie: 1:09:45

they she said they cursed her by mistake or something

Jann: 1:09:48

I think that's what they thought.

Jackie: 1:09:50

so No,

Joi: 1:09:51

Mm

Jann: 1:09:52

Yeah, they thought they were just like telling her like it's not gonna survive, but I think, and they didn't, I don't think they put it in there because she was out there crying because she was in pain. So I think she had a parasite and they gave it like more energy, which is why it was so dramatic when she was trying to save her. So that parasite multiplied because they tried to see the baby and then gave energy to that parasite.

Joi: 1:10:15

I

Jann: 1:10:15

You know, they were trying to help and they messed it up.

Joi: 1:10:18

So you think it's one of those things, once again, it's like manifesting, like you put it out there and go like, oh, so it's worse. Or like how the witch was like, I want y'all to shut up already, and they killed themselves and

Jackie: 1:10:28

Well, that's what I'm saying. That's probably...

Jann: 1:10:30

like the whole point

Jackie: 1:10:31

had to save the town from them, too. I think that's part of it, you know? Mm hmm.

Jann: 1:10:38

well with the manifesting that you were talking about the joy, um, the whole part of spells is like You're like actually spelling things or writing it out and bringing it into existence. So yeah words have power Um, so yeah, that could definitely be it for a lot of the stories Um, I was going to say, because mom kind of called you out on your recap, but I was going to call you out on a different thing. Um, is that you missed the point of like, that little snot nosed kid that was like, bullying the younger, darker girl, uh, twin the whole time, actually is the reason why they started stoning her. Remember because he cornered the little twin and chased her into that house and he was like gonna beat her for whatever

Jackie: 1:11:23

him suspended. He tried to do something. She, um, he felt like she got him

Jann: 1:11:28

well, I, I know why, but I just said for whatever reason, because I don't think it's an important detail. Um, but yeah, he, he, he chased her into the house and she hid and he went upstairs and whatever was up there got his little butt and she tried to like, she was going to run up and save him. Um, And got scared and stopped and as soon as she stopped, like, it was everything stops and his shoes got thrown

Jackie: 1:11:53

Uh huh.

Jann: 1:11:53

stairs, which I'm getting chills thinking about it right now. Like, all those shoes are probably somebody else. They got, which is crazy to me. And then she ran out and then they were looking for that kid. Yeah, they were looking for that kid and assumed it was her because she had been identified as a witch and decided to stone her. So, that was the whole reason in this town she got stoned,

Joi: 1:12:18

I thought that that was like an excuse that they used because they didn't go to her house until after the bee incident at the church. So they're just like, Oh, we saw you do this weird shit with bees. And now we also have a kid missing. So two and two equals we're killing you.

Jackie: 1:12:35

Yeah.

Jann: 1:12:38

what's crazy about that is that the person leading this lynch mob was the preacher from the church. Like, the, he actually, it's not like he didn't interfere, he started this, like he threw literally the first stone, like they threw stones at her until she died. So, and the little girl tried to come and help her, and they did not care. They kept throwing stones and almost killed the little girl too, even though the whole reason that you're upset with this woman is that a little boy is missing, and yet you are actively throwing stones and killing this child. You know, so there was that hypocrisy

Jackie: 1:13:16

of God. Murder. Right

Jann: 1:13:18

what the church and associated with the

Joi: 1:13:20

I think it's interesting too that the little, the dark sister got hit too. Like the other one didn't jump into the fray. So it makes you kind of sit and think like, would they stop trying to stone her if the light skinned one went in there with another play on the racism,

Jackie: 1:13:34

And I thought about that, too, Joy. I thought, like, maybe the other one had been in there, it would have stopped, you know?

Joi: 1:13:42

Cause the parents too, they're real nervous about their daughters even jumping into it because they're like, well, they're weird too. And people are going to see it. So they might as well just kill them too. Like they would think that they would kill them too. So they didn't want them to jump into it in the first place.

Jann: 1:13:57

Yeah. So one of the reason I liked it is just because it has so many strong themes in it with, uh, like otherness in the black community, the colorism, the actual horror with that house, because Jesus, that's terrifying. Um, the hypocrisy in the church, like there's just so many very strong themes.

Joi: 1:14:15

Domestic abuse.

Jann: 1:14:17

domestic abuse. Oh, that's not, we didn't even touch on that. Like the pregnant lady that she saved, like the baby she saved, tried to help her when they were stoning her too. And they actually stopped stoning her when she fell into it. And her husband came and grabbed her and slapped her while she's pregnant, very, very visibly pregnant and dragged her away in front of the church, the preacher. Everybody who's following the pre trial, like everybody who attends this Sunday service, and no one says a thing, and then continues to stone this woman and the child.

Joi: 1:14:51

and attempted, um, infanticide.

Jann: 1:14:57

Oh,

Jackie: 1:14:58

Yeah. Yeah.

Joi: 1:15:00

There's just so much in this story and it's so good.

Jann: 1:15:06

I didn't like, okay, who's going to recap that part?

Joi: 1:15:09

Uh, I mean, I've had as well. So this is another time when, um, Fannie Lou was helping a pregnant woman, um, kind of birth a baby that was kind of hard to, um, be born. I think it was breech, so feet first. Um, and it was, the mother was dying, it was too much blood, and, um, Fanny was like, listen, it's gonna be really hard for both of them. And the husband comes up and goes like, Hey, if the mother doesn't make it, I can't afford this baby. So, and if the baby makes it like, you know,

Jackie: 1:15:43

Yeah, because I have so many

Joi: 1:15:45

like, yeah,

Jann: 1:15:46

if the baby makes it, I can't, if they both make it, I can't afford the baby. And if the mother doesn't make it,

Jackie: 1:15:53

Right, because they had too

Jann: 1:15:54

pretty much saying either way, this baby needs

Jackie: 1:15:57

because they he was like he had what do you have six kids or something already? I

Joi: 1:16:01

yeah. And he was struggling already. But the thing is too, like, he was like, basically kill the baby. You know, either way. And she was like, fuck out of here. So, while she was saving the baby, the mother died, you know, because we knew that she was going to die. And he was mad about it. And I feel like he also had something to do with how they came up to the house. Because he instigated an issue with her before and she kicked his ass. And I feel like he probably got into the preacher's ear as well and was like, hey, we gotta take care of her, you know. Like, she's an issue.

Jann: 1:16:33

It was definitely implied because when the preacher like led that mob to her he was like right next to the preacher

Jackie: 1:16:40

Yeah, he definitely had a lot to do with it. He felt like she was the reason he, he, he faced ruin like that. He got, he lost all his, his land and all that because he couldn't afford to have, you know, watch the kids and do the farm and all that when the wife died. And he blamed her and it was more about him going after her because he couldn't do it on his own. So, a little chicken butt and go and get the congregation to help him, you know.

Joi: 1:17:08

Yeah. Love that fun stuff.

Jann: 1:17:12

a lot of very strong themes in that last story.

Joi: 1:17:14

Yeah.

Jann: 1:17:15

I think it was the best one Um other than key

Jackie: 1:17:18

Yeah, and then, wait a minute, I know one other thing you didn't touch on too. Here's my thing, they were all about charity. Remember, they were helping the widow and she didn't want their help and everything, but they had no charity for this woman. They're gonna stone her to death. You know?

Joi: 1:17:34

True, but she was also an outsider. Like, she wasn't necessarily, like,

Jackie: 1:17:37

Yeah, but that doesn't matter. With charity, it doesn't supposed to be an outsider insider. You either, um, acting like a person of God and have charity and love for everyone or you don't.

Jann: 1:17:50

Yeah, it kind of went into that whole like hypocrisy Like you're supposed to turn the other cheek and everything else and they obviously were not doing that since they were stoning a woman And child to death in

Jackie: 1:18:00

they're all so

Joi: 1:18:01

I have one more question about it.

Jann: 1:18:04

Okay

Joi: 1:18:04

Did they say that that cabin that they played in that used to be their cabin and now it's kind of decrepit like it's one of those cabins that people who just moves in when they need it and

Jackie: 1:18:13

Yeah, it used to be the

Jann: 1:18:15

No, they

Jackie: 1:18:16

No, no, it was their property. It was the great great grandmothers and stuff used to live there or something. And then when they built the new house and stuff, they just let people just live there when they needed to and stuff. Yeah.

Joi: 1:18:28

yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it didn't have power or anything like you're like, you're like homeless when you find that house

Jackie: 1:18:34

Yeah, they just let him.

Joi: 1:18:35

Like it's supposed to call when you um, when you move in but you don't like own it. What's it called?

Jackie: 1:18:41

yeah, squatters They let him squat there.

Joi: 1:18:43

were living there.

Jackie: 1:18:44

it was definitely their

Joi: 1:18:45

So I was just thinking, I was like, if it was so haunted, or if there was like something there, I wonder if that like got to the kids somehow, or like in their families somehow, like that power, you know?

Jackie: 1:18:58

had power that saved their butts from being shoes in the closet like everybody else. Or they're the ones put the shoes in the closet when people, you know. But they didn't, she didn't get into it, so we don't know.

Joi: 1:19:13

Yeah. That'd be a cool movie.

Jackie: 1:19:17

it was scary. That was the scary part of it, for sure.

Joi: 1:19:20

Yeah.

Jann: 1:19:21

That was the scariest part of this whole book, to be honest.

Joi: 1:19:24

It was. Yeah.

Jackie: 1:19:25

Yeah, that was

Joi: 1:19:29

I'm like, who does this for fun? Like, who goes and throws shoes?

Jackie: 1:19:32

yes.

Joi: 1:19:34

But I guess they had no TV or internet or nothing, so.

Jackie: 1:19:36

that's true.

Jann: 1:19:37

That's what happens when you live in the country.

Jackie: 1:19:39

you go. you go. Hmm.

Joi: 1:19:44

Oh my gosh, and like, I know we talked about this before, and we couldn't remember the name of the city. And I have it written on my little notes here, and it's been here for a long time. I just have Blackville. Ha ha ha! Y'all remember That they

Jackie: 1:20:02

No, I can't remember.

Joi: 1:20:04

Ha It

Jann: 1:20:05

I think it was Black Veil, let's

Joi: 1:20:06

wasn't It

Jackie: 1:20:08

it was not Blackville, but I,

Jann: 1:20:11

Give me one second, I'm gonna look it up.

Jackie: 1:20:13

of it.

Jann: 1:20:15

I'm not even playing, like, I gotta know.

Joi: 1:20:18

Blackville. I wanna live somewhere named Blackville.

Jackie: 1:20:21

So

Jann: 1:20:22

Uh,

Jackie: 1:20:23

this is everyone's number one story, probably because it was so long and she got into it more too. But a whole, and that's what I say, Joy, you missed

Jann: 1:20:30

Yeah, it was definitely more

Jackie: 1:20:32

but not only that, the whole thing, I thought it was awesome that she was going and helping put these souls at peace, you know, from all these, these bad deaths and people trying to run for freedom. That was awesome. And that's what reminded me of the whole thing about root magic and the two joy.

Joi: 1:20:51

It made me sad though, when the first little boy they found, they said, he was like only like four years old in that basement. And I was like, oh, like that's so little. That's a baby. So,

Jann: 1:21:02

First Spirit, yeah, definitely. It was called Colored Town.

Jackie: 1:21:08

worse. That's

Joi: 1:21:09

white feel better,

Jackie: 1:21:11

Colortown. Yeah.

Jann: 1:21:14

It was Colored Town. Okay, so, um, If nothing else, then, about this story, I think, um, we should return to our ratings. Like, would you guys change any of the ratings? Joy, let's start with you 4.

Joi: 1:21:29

like 4.5 is a good fit for this book for me. Just like I said, like most of the stories, like the majority of the stories were really good and it wasn't normal, my normal cup of tea, but I was happy to read it when I think back on it. Mm-hmm.

Jann: 1:21:48

All right,

Jackie: 1:21:49

I, I, like, I'm gonna go with the 3. 5s too. Because like I said, some of the stories, I was like, uh, I don't know. And then some, like, the room where Ben disappeared, like, I don't get it. You know, they, she didn't tell enough about it, so I'm good with the 3.5. She did write good, but it wasn't my cup of tea. Horror, you know, either so.

Jann: 1:22:12

Yeah, so I gave it a three I think I will change mine up to a four only because I forgot how much I like that last story And also I have to like think about it From a short story point of view rather than horror because if I'm gen like rating it from the horror genre I'm gonna stick with the three but as far as short stories I think she did that very well If I just don't think of it as horror and just think of it as short stories, I probably rate it a little bit higher So I'll give it a four

Joi: 1:22:40

Mm

Jann: 1:22:40

with the caveat that that's a short story rating, not horror.

Joi: 1:22:45

I feel like if you were to take the majority of these stories and make them full size books, most of them would be really cool to read, and I would hope that she would take at least the last one and make it a full story, like a full book. Like, a lot of these I would like

Jann: 1:23:03

I would read it.

Jackie: 1:23:04

or something like a series like Twilight Zone or something, you know?

Joi: 1:23:11

Yeah, that would be cool to see, too. Yeah.

Jann: 1:23:15

yeah, agreed.

Jackie: 1:23:18

Yeah.

Jann: 1:23:20

All right, so, um, let's announce the next book, uh, and then we'll do a quick sign off. So the next book, we're going to change it up and do a romance. We're doing Truly, Madly, Royally by Debbie Rigo. So the synopsis is, Fiercely independent and smart, Zora Emerson wants to change the world. She's excited to be attending a prestigious summer program, even if she feels out of place among her privileged, mostly white classmates. So she's definitely not expecting to feel a connection to Owen, who's an actual prince of an island off the coast of England. But Owen is funny, charming, and undeniably cute. Zora can't ignore the chemistry between them. When Owen invites Zora to be his date at his big brother's royal wedding, Zora is suddenly thrust into the spotlight, along with her family and friends. Everyone is talking about her, in real life and online, and while Owen is used to the scrutiny, Zora is not sure it's something she can live with. Can she maintain her sense of self while moving between two very different worlds? And can her feelings for, and can her feelings for Owen survive and thrive in the midst of the crazy find out in this charming, romantic comedy that's like the Princess Diaries for a new Generation.

Joi: 1:24:34

Hey, get our Megan Marco on

Jann: 1:24:42

Yeah. It'll be a fun one. So that's what we're reading next week. Um, okay. So with that, let's do a quick sign off. Mom, do you wanna sign off?

Jackie: 1:24:52

have anything to advertise or, but I can't say I enjoyed it and I'll be back.

Jann: 1:24:59

We always enjoy having you and uh joy you want to do our sign off

Joi: 1:25:03

Yes on TikTok and Twitter. You can find us at B K Girl Reads Pod. And once again, that's B L K Girl Reads Pod on Instagram. YouTube and Facebook. BLK Girl Reads Podcast. So it's a little longer, but it's still the same good stuff.

Jann: 1:25:24

Yeah, and if you're listening to us on YouTube, don't forget to Like and subscribe

Joi: 1:25:30

Subscribe.

Jackie: 1:25:30

Yay! Ha

Jann: 1:25:32

Also, a couple more things, guys. If you ever want to go to our website, BlackGirlReads. com, you can sign up to get our TBR list. It has over 200 books from Black authors, if you're looking for something to read in between these episodes. Um, and what else do we have to tell them, Joy? Oh yeah, give us some recommendations. Like, what do you guys want to hear us read? Like, what genres, what books, what recommendations do you have for us?

Joi: 1:25:59

Yeah, or we're gonna keep picking them.

Jackie: 1:26:02

ha! Well, you don't want me to pick them. It's gonna scare everybody.

Jann: 1:26:05

That sounded like a

Jackie: 1:26:06

them, it's gonna scare everybody to death. Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Joi: 1:26:11

So I scared Janet deaf.

Jackie: 1:26:14

Mm hmm.

Jann: 1:26:14

Seriously, we're gonna have to take a chill in the

Jackie: 1:26:17

Ha ha

Joi: 1:26:18

It's coming up! Come on! Let's do it.

Jann: 1:26:23

All right. Thanks everybody.

Joi: 1:26:25

Bye!